[Crimsondude]

+1

[CanRay]

Yeah, why not.  Even if it's Shadowrun, Tolkien probably existed.  I could see some dwarven tribe setting up in one of those mesas out west.

It's stated that Metatypes hate Tolkien for the preconceived notions that people have about the "Mythical Races" that even continues into the 2070s.

That said, some of them have grasped the "stereotype" with both hands really hard.

As for Dwarves getting the short end of the stick, what other type of stick did you expect the Halfers to get? 

(BTW:  Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant.  Not a Dwarf.  When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll.  )

[Namikaze]

(BTW:  Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant.  Not a Dwarf.  When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll.  )

That's what I've always understood about him too.  But he did make a comment about how the BTR-20 APC in Eurowar Antiques wasn't built for a dwarf because he needed a stool.  I thought that made things a little confusing.

[DeathStrobe]

There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype.  It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies.  Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?

Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time.  But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.

...  Put it to you this way:  If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.

What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.

[Reaver]

There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype.  It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies.  Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?

Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time.  But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.

...  Put it to you this way:  If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.

What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.

Really???







....I got a job for you.






.... bring bug spray, a bible, and brush up on your yoga.

[RHat]

There's a dwarven gang in Denver called the Sons of Gimli that play into the stereotype.  It's not mentioned, but they could certainly have a base of operations inside one of the Rockies.  Perhaps they managed to get their paws on NORAD?

Before anyone mentions it, I'm aware that NORAD isn't in Denver at this time.  But it is part of the Front Range Free Zone, so it's part of the Denver setting.

...  Put it to you this way:  If you're playing a game, and the Johnson offers you a job going into Cheyenne Mountain, RUN.

What's in NORAD? I know that the US government blew it up before they left. But I don't recall there actually being anything in it, other then a lot of rocks.

Really???







....I got a job for you.






.... bring bug spray, a bible, and brush up on your yoga.

Some ketchup wouldn't hurt, either.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

(BTW:  Clockwork is a Hobgoblin, an Ork-Metavariant.  Not a Dwarf.  When posting about Netcat, however, he becomes a Matrix Troll.  )

That's what I've always understood about him too.  But he did make a comment about how the BTR-20 APC in Eurowar Antiques wasn't built for a dwarf because he needed a stool.  I thought that made things a little confusing.

No, Clockwork is a hob.  Hobs did, notably, get whacked with the short-and-skinny stick in comparison to other orks, which is probably one reason (of many) why Clockwork has such a burr up his ass.  I wouldn't bet that he doesn't have a few mechanic contacts who are dwarves, though, therefore the comment.

As for dwarves in general in SR ... well, Namikaze hit it out of the park with his post, but I do know that they do tend to not be played except by people who want to play technogeeks and those few who get smart about their sorcery.  (C'mon - +2 Will?)  Even the sharp decker-players will go with a dwarf - again for that Will boost, this time against Black IC.

In regards to them being players racially, having a 'homeland', well, the thing about SR is that really, there's a dozen or so elves shoving the 'racial homeland' thing down other peoples' throats.  How's that work, really, when culture plays the biggest part in your life?  You grow up on the Indian subcontinent, you're Indian - whether you're troll, ork, elf, human, dwarf, or tiger shapeshifter, y'know?  Talk to someone from Africa, and they're not 'black'; they have a culture, a tribe, and by-god you better realize it before you're chewing on your own hip, your foot is so far in your mouth.

Give it five hundred or a thousand years down the line, when elves HAVE congregated together naturally due to lifespan (who gets the 'Pinky and the Brain' jokes now, huh? And it's only been a couple dozen years ...), where ork breeding has naturally given them overwhelming dominance in an area, where Everything In the Black Forest Is Built To Very Fraggin' Big An' Tall An' Tough Dimensions - or where instead of countertops set at 6' height, they're all set at 2'4" in a buildings built for families where nobody but NOBODY is over 5' tall.  Then you'll have 'racial homelands' - but to be entirely honest, I wouldn't bet on that any more.  Interesting in a fantasy campaign, but in reality, not always functional - especially when interbreeding is possible.

[CanRay]

"Ah'm a Dwarf."  "Right.  Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf."  "Mahm wuz a Dwarf.  Dahd wuz a Dwarf.  Ah'm a Dwarf!  YA GOTZ DAT???"  "Yes.  Please don't eat me.  And can you put me down gently now?"

[Reaver]

"Ah'm a Dwarf."  "Right.  Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf."  "Mahm wuz a Dwarf.  Dahd wuz a Dwarf.  Ah'm a Dwarf!  YA GOTZ DAT???"  "Yes.  Please don't eat me.  And can you put me down gently now?"

use the old "Troll mothering" technique....


That is where you put the person's ENTIRE head in the troll's mouth!

Great for washing faces, calming a tantrum, or initimidating someone!

[Sichr]

Funny part of thw topic of inexistent dwarven homeland...most Caers in 4th world were built by dwarves, Throal etc...iirc, and by allowing people inside they helped metahumanity to survive the Scourge. Until they have an oportunity to discover the legacy of their kind, they may seem to have minor role in the setting. Strange no word about this hitvthe streets, with SK and Atlantean foundation diging the Ukraine/Barsaive for a few decades. I have plotline for this in my games, well iirc there is much less about that in official game sources. Or did I missed something?

[Longshot23]

"Ah'm a Dwarf."  "Right.  Three metres tall without the horns, and you're a Dwarf."  "Mahm wuz a Dwarf.  Dahd wuz a Dwarf.  Ah'm a Dwarf!  YA GOTZ DAT???"  "Yes.  Please don't eat me.  And can you put me down gently now?"

Which side of Mungo's family is this from?   

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Or did I missed something?

... maybe the part about a general move to separate SR from ED ... ??  Yes, it gets tinkered around some, but ...

ICly, you're also talking about events of 5,000+ years ago, and a bunch of people who don't want to blab, and have reasons to cover up or discredit theorization.  And how, exactly, can one say, "Oh, this is clearly dwarven work" when your current oldest known dwarven work is fifty years old???

[Sichr]

Or did I missed something?

... maybe the part about a general move to separate SR from ED ... ??  Yes, it gets tinkered around some, but ...

ICly, you're also talking about events of 5,000+ years ago, and a bunch of people who don't want to blab, and have reasons to cover up or discredit theorization.  And how, exactly, can one say, "Oh, this is clearly dwarven work" when your current oldest known dwarven work is fifty years old???

I am aware of that schism that happened after Fasa broke down some years ago. Well I am not sure if there is official line that says: there are no links to that game and universe, now we are doing is differently... how deep and significant is zhat divide...if you have some insight?

[Longshot23]

Funny part of thw topic of inexistent dwarven homeland...most Caers in 4th world were built by dwarves, Throal etc...iirc, and by allowing people inside they helped metahumanity to survive the Scourge. Until they have an oportunity to discover the legacy of their kind, they may seem to have minor role in the setting. Strange no word about this hitvthe streets, with SK and Atlantean foundation diging the Ukraine/Barsaive for a few decades. I have plotline for this in my games, well iirc there is much less about that in official game sources. Or did I missed something?

There's also the Atlantean Foundation's ongoing archaeological digs on the island of Santorini, in the Aegean Sea - it's relevant because in the Bronze Age (real world) Santorini was actually named Thera. I think it was the great dragons who spread the know-how of building kaers, not dwarves. There were dwarven, orkish, trollish and elven kaers, built by each metatype.

Considering the topological changes in the Barsaive area, which nobody seems to have clued into, S-K and the AF are searching the wrong area (if they want to find Throal, anyway).

[Reaver]

It was pretty fast and loose to begin with (given the different development dates for ED and SR)

But after the split? There is next to 0 references to the 4th world/ED. Heck even the artifacts missions tried to keep their distance to ED....

Copyrights, and IP is a murky world that Topps and Catalyst don't want to enter.... especially with a new company out there hungry for money and owning the ED rights...