[Reaver]

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term. Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

What.

Lots of weird/stupid laws are still on the books, and more are even being made today.

I remember a law that was passed that made Internet Cafes illegal by mistake.

next time you get arrested for public intoxication, remember to demand your horse, your rifle and 12 rounds of ammo that the Winnipeg police are legally obligated to give a drunk on his release.


(talk about stupid laws )

[Reaver]

Oh and if you live in Ohio and own a cat and a dog and they live in the same house, make sure you get your cat-dog marriage license or the city could fine your pets $5 a day!

[psycho835]

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term. Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

What.

Lots of weird/stupid laws are still on the books, and more are even being made today.

I remember a law that was passed that made Internet Cafes illegal by mistake.

next time you get arrested for public intoxication, remember to demand your horse, your rifle and 12 rounds of ammo that the Winnipeg police are legally obligated to give a drunk on his release.


(talk about stupid laws )

Remains from the days of wild west?

[CanRay]

next time you get arrested for public intoxication, remember to demand your horse, your rifle and 12 rounds of ammo that the Winnipeg police are legally obligated to give a drunk on his release.

(talk about stupid laws )

Remains from the days of wild west?

Possibly, or from when Winnipeg was the Murder Capital of Canada, and that was your best chance of getting out of town before the guy you beat up at the bar comes back to kill you while hung-over.

I, however, don't overindulge in alcohol, so I can't get my horse, rifle, and ammo for "free".   

Oh well, $150+ for a rental at the range I found.  Just wish I could afford it more often.  For, um, research, yeah.

[Shock223]

I, however, don't overindulge in alcohol, so I can't get my horse, rifle, and ammo for "free".   

Atleast you Canadians can get ammo. Here I am in the middle of the heartland of 'merica and can't find a case of .22 to shoot because of the panic of Obama and all the old guys buying all the shipments in bulk to sell at jacked up prices on crig's list or armslist.





 

[psycho835]

Have you checked in with your fixer?

[Shock223]

You mean the dude that hangs out under the overpass, dressed in a bluish black trench coat, and greets everyone with "Welcome Stranger!"?

Checked in with him the other day and even he's starting to overcharge. 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

In short, regardless of how much KE wants the "rules" changed, they can't just change them willy-nilly, in fact they have no control over the laws at all! They simply enforce them.

So it isn't a matter of being restricted; it's a matter of whether or not KE wants to be 100% total dicks.  They can find the laws that allow them.  And even just normally, hell, jaywalking is a ticketable offense ...

Just cause KE steps in as the new police force doesn't mean the entire legal system gets a rewrite. They can not stop people from gathering in numbers, or speaking out about an injustice. Or invade your home without a warrant (if you have a SIN). In short, they have to follow the laws guidelines laid out by the UCAS, and just can "make it up as they go". Sure they can adjust resources and use legal means to target sections of the illegal community.... but they just can't (for example) shoot every car thief on the justification that they are stopping auto crime. But they could use more bait cars, drone ID survailance, random police stops, patrols, or any other LEGAL means to make it harder on car thieves (including giving vehicle owners tickets for not locking their doors!)

In short, it's "the same game against a different team" rather than entirely different game.

No offense, but I haven't forgotten anything; cities still have their own laws, often - usually - surviving changes in nationality.  I'm also not talking about the broad sweeping constitutional rights that you are.  What I'm talking about is what could make Knight Errant lose the Seattle contract, by dint of their being your 'all-accepting general jack-booted thug'.

In point of fact, Damien Knight's personal jackbooted thugs.  So maybe Damien's visiting Seattle, and some people have pissed in his Cheerios every day for the entire week.  He doesn't know much about them, except it's an athletic blonde male human, a brunette ork female, an androgynous elf with a datajack, and they're all driving around in a dark-colored sedan.  So he tells KE, 'Find these guys.'

KE is now on the lookout, pulling over every dark-colored sedan so they can get a look inside, hassling every athletic blonde male human, picking on every brunette ork female, and putting every elf with a datajack against the wall for a frisking.  They turn a little LawyerBot loose in every KE officer's commlink, specifically to Come Up With A Reason You Can Be Stopping (Target Person/Vehicle X/Y/Z).  Take your pick:

• "A vehicle answering this description and GridGuide signature was recently reported as being stolen.  Please step out of the car with your hands in plain view at all times."
• "Sir, littering is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a ¥250 fine and ten days in jail.  Let me see your ID.
• "Down on the ground, and spread 'em!!  Sir, I have a ork female potentially matching the code 187 at Market and First."

Or maybe Damien just wants Seattle to run like a Swiss watch.  Sure, KE lets people gather in numbers, doesn't stop them from speaking out against a perceived injustice, and doesn't invade their homes; sure enough.  But any group receives two KE cops per 10-15 people involved who are there 'just to make sure no violence erupts'.  Any person speaking out against an perceived injustice is welcomed with a friendly smile by a 'face' cop, asked to come talk about that injustice and how to correct it ... and once they're away from the public (and the cameras, and the KE hacker has sliced the outspoken person's personal cam, etc.) they get quietly intimidated.  "This isn't -really- a problem, considering how much damage X is doing ... and how much we're working on it with big, burly gentlemen like the three coming in the room right now ... is it?"  And invading their homes ... hell, that's what black-bag jobs (and shadowrunners!!) are all about.

I agree completely with you that the laws haven't changed, and that KE can't change them.  You seem to be missing the fact that I'm saying that KE, like police departments everywhere, have the ability to enforce laws and regulations with selective vigor.  90+% of the time, that 'selective enforcement' is going to be completely legal.  My point is that such selective enforcement could raise enough outcry to the Governor's Mansion that KE loses the contract at the next bidding cycle.

It isn't that it's a different sport; it's that it's the same sport played with a different style, and with a different aim.  Boxing is boxing, but one guy may be a puncher, another is a boxer, and the third is a sadist who only wants to make you hurt for as long as possible.

[psycho835]

And don't forget about the "Ares is a hive" angle.

[Sendaz]

And don't forget about the "Ares is a hive" angle.

Was thinking the same...

How long before some personnel shuffling between the subdivisions lands a bug among the KE, though one would think they would be screening heavily against this.

Or possibly seeing some bugtech prototypes being used in the field, lab testing is nice but practical application under real conditions is still a good way to test something.

[Reaver]

In short, regardless of how much KE wants the "rules" changed, they can't just change them willy-nilly, in fact they have no control over the laws at all! They simply enforce them.

So it isn't a matter of being restricted; it's a matter of whether or not KE wants to be 100% total dicks.  They can find the laws that allow them.  And even just normally, hell, jaywalking is a ticketable offense ...

Just cause KE steps in as the new police force doesn't mean the entire legal system gets a rewrite. They can not stop people from gathering in numbers, or speaking out about an injustice. Or invade your home without a warrant (if you have a SIN). In short, they have to follow the laws guidelines laid out by the UCAS, and just can "make it up as they go". Sure they can adjust resources and use legal means to target sections of the illegal community.... but they just can't (for example) shoot every car thief on the justification that they are stopping auto crime. But they could use more bait cars, drone ID survailance, random police stops, patrols, or any other LEGAL means to make it harder on car thieves (including giving vehicle owners tickets for not locking their doors!)

In short, it's "the same game against a different team" rather than entirely different game.

No offense, but I haven't forgotten anything; cities still have their own laws, often - usually - surviving changes in nationality.  I'm also not talking about the broad sweeping constitutional rights that you are.  What I'm talking about is what could make Knight Errant lose the Seattle contract, by dint of their being your 'all-accepting general jack-booted thug'.

In point of fact, Damien Knight's personal jackbooted thugs.  So maybe Damien's visiting Seattle, and some people have pissed in his Cheerios every day for the entire week.  He doesn't know much about them, except it's an athletic blonde male human, a brunette ork female, an androgynous elf with a datajack, and they're all driving around in a dark-colored sedan.  So he tells KE, 'Find these guys.'

KE is now on the lookout, pulling over every dark-colored sedan so they can get a look inside, hassling every athletic blonde male human, picking on every brunette ork female, and putting every elf with a datajack against the wall for a frisking.  They turn a little LawyerBot loose in every KE officer's commlink, specifically to Come Up With A Reason You Can Be Stopping (Target Person/Vehicle X/Y/Z).  Take your pick:

• "A vehicle answering this description and GridGuide signature was recently reported as being stolen.  Please step out of the car with your hands in plain view at all times."
• "Sir, littering is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a ¥250 fine and ten days in jail.  Let me see your ID.
• "Down on the ground, and spread 'em!!  Sir, I have a ork female potentially matching the code 187 at Market and First."

Or maybe Damien just wants Seattle to run like a Swiss watch.  Sure, KE lets people gather in numbers, doesn't stop them from speaking out against a perceived injustice, and doesn't invade their homes; sure enough.  But any group receives two KE cops per 10-15 people involved who are there 'just to make sure no violence erupts'.  Any person speaking out against an perceived injustice is welcomed with a friendly smile by a 'face' cop, asked to come talk about that injustice and how to correct it ... and once they're away from the public (and the cameras, and the KE hacker has sliced the outspoken person's personal cam, etc.) they get quietly intimidated.  "This isn't -really- a problem, considering how much damage X is doing ... and how much we're working on it with big, burly gentlemen like the three coming in the room right now ... is it?"  And invading their homes ... hell, that's what black-bag jobs (and shadowrunners!!) are all about.

I agree completely with you that the laws haven't changed, and that KE can't change them.  You seem to be missing the fact that I'm saying that KE, like police departments everywhere, have the ability to enforce laws and regulations with selective vigor.  90+% of the time, that 'selective enforcement' is going to be completely legal.  My point is that such selective enforcement could raise enough outcry to the Governor's Mansion that KE loses the contract at the next bidding cycle.

It isn't that it's a different sport; it's that it's the same sport played with a different style, and with a different aim.  Boxing is boxing, but one guy may be a puncher, another is a boxer, and the third is a sadist who only wants to make you hurt for as long as possible.

Wyrm, re-read everything again, we are basically arguing the same thing. the only difference is the perspective of the Corp.

I see Knight Errant as what it is: a Company under the umbra of Ares. That means it has to turn a profit, or report just why not to the stockholders and thus the "Higher ups". (and ultimately the board of directors for Ares, not just Damien Knight.) However, they also need Seattle to appear to be under control and that they are doing a professional job (in hopes of attracting more cities across the world/North America). To lure other cities away from Lone Star, Knight errant has to be more professional, get better results, have a high community support/involvement, be cheaper.... Or at least "better in the majority of the City's concerns".

So, they (as a company) might over spend in Seattle for a short while (especially if they suspect other cities are shopping around for a new provider), but in the long run they expect Seattle to turn a profit.... I highly doubt that Seattle is going to pay for a "cop on every corner" police state, nor do I think Knight errant could afford that much manpower.... (but they probably would if they could AND turn a profit!)


I guess it depends on how dystopian of an environment and/or controlling you want to make the Corps....

[psycho835]

And don't forget about the "Ares is a hive" angle.

Was thinking the same...

How long before some personnel shuffling between the subdivisions lands a bug among the KE, though one would think they would be screening heavily against this.

You mean "plants", right?

[Vidnaut]

I would say reading the entry on Hard Exit in "Street Legends Supplemental" gives you some insights also into Lone Star corporate culture and what it means to us in the Shadows.

Hard Exit comes from the first generation of children born as Lone Star corporate citizens, and she was even born in Austin. That is important enough, but you have to consider that as chauvinistic as the Star culture is now, it was magnitudes worse back then, and Austin was the epicenter of it all. The newly divided city was still a low-intensity conflict zone when she was born, and Lone Star was right in the middle. This would come to define her, as she was a girl who was born and raised in a culture where men mattered and women were little more than brood mares. No matter how much she resisted, and how much she asserted herself, Clay Wilson’s retro empire had a specific vision for women: Shut up and serve your man, and Lone Star too. Growing up in Austin also gave her a peculiar insight into life within conflict zones, which is now where she commonly works.

She had a difficult task ahead of her, since the us-versus-them way of thinking was practically a religion within Lone Star.

> Of course it didn’t last. Once we left and KE took over, they threw away any goodwill we had developed and went back to their policy of mechanical dissociation and mental intimidation. It’s still better than the bullying knuckle-draggers in Lone Star, but not by much.
> Hard Exit

I also find it rather hilarious that Clay Wilson, the founder of Lone Star, was hired to replace Roger Soaring Eagle after his resignation as Knight Errant Executive VP. (Damien Knight's entry in the same supplemental)

[Ixal]

Its mentioned in the source books (and likely in here too and I just missed it) but there is of course also the differences in access and corporate politics.

KE has no problem to chase you into Ares property where LS has to stop and ask first. Likewise, if you just come out of a Ares building hot then the KE units outside probably have all the information of you and will likely also coordinate with the security detail on your tail. It might even be possible that the building security, also being KE; can and will follow you into the city.

Of course if you are on the run from the security of an Ares competitor, the response might be a little bit slower and weaker than what you would expect.

[Vidnaut]

Its mentioned in the source books (and likely in here too and I just missed it) but there is of course also the differences in access and corporate politics.

KE has no problem to chase you into Ares property where LS has to stop and ask first. Likewise, if you just come out of a Ares building hot then the KE units outside probably have all the information of you and will likely also coordinate with the security detail on your tail. It might even be possible that the building security, also being KE; can and will follow you into the city.

Of course if you are on the run from the security of an Ares competitor, the response might be a little bit slower and weaker than what you would expect.

There's also the possibility that the KE corporate security division is separate from the division that handles public safety.  There could very well be inter-divisional conflicts similar to what happens in Lone Star.  KE is still staffed by people after all and you can't discipline out all the conflicts of interest that can happen in a corporate environment.