[lawndart]

So, my game has a Troll Face/Brawler (Street Level with a metahuman discount, Orc/Troll game basically). To make up for his lack of Init Boosting, he found Kamikaze. Kamikaze is theoretically crazy addictive (Addiction Rating 9 and Threshold 3) but Troll has 12 dice for the physical addiction test, so as long as he takes every other week off, he's rolling 12 dice against a threshold of 2, no matter how many times he takes it. Did I miss a penalty for taking a drug 43 times in one addiction test period?

[Mithlas]

I thought that the trouble was when you took it too frequently in close proximity which is exactly what the addiction test period was. Taking it six times in one day would mean you're less and less likely to walk away without addiction. That's what I'm sure the rules as intended are, anyway.

[Deathstorm]

It is every time you use the substance X weeks in a row. As I choose to interpret it, if you use the kamikaze 43 times in a row, you need to make 42 addiction checks. Unless he's putting them down one after the other in order to stave off the adverse effects. Then, he makes no addiction check, because even a troll with 12 body and 6 willpower will be dead after 11 doses, because of the word "unresisted" in the description of Kamikaze.

[firebug]

How addiction works has been discussed in other threads, I suggest you search and try to find them, but this is what I believe has been considered how it's supposed to work as written:

    You use a drug, thereby entering "week 1". (The rules aren't clear on where in the week you are. though: the first day? the last day? If you use the drug again 6 hours later, is that in "week 2"? Perhaps Sunday is Addiction Test Day?)

    "Decision week" is set as week (11 - Addiction Rating): that can range from week 10 for soykaf, all the way down to 2 for Kamikaze and Nitro. (Technically, it's every multiple of that number, by the way - so weeks 2, 4, 6, etc. for Kamikaze/Nitro, and weeks 10, 20, 30, etc. for soykaf.)

    At the end of each week, you follow a few steps:
        Did I use the drug at any point during this week?
            Yes: reset Addiction Threshold to the initial value. Carry on with the next step.
            No: the Addiction Threshold goes down by 1. Is it 0 now?
                Yes: you're in the clear! No need to keep track anymore.
                No: carry on with the next step.

        Is this a "Decision week"?
            Yes: Make an Addiction Test (2 if the addiction type is both psychological and physiological). Did you pass the test (or both tests)?
                Yes: congratulations! You didn't get hooked this time, but until the Threshold hits 0 or you get hooked, you'll have to continue keeping track of this. See you next week!
                No: you're now (even more) hooked. No need to keep track anymore.
            No: see you next week!

I forgot to save the username of who wrote that...  It wasn't me, that's for sure.

[raleel]

The point here is that the troll is rolling 12 dice, and the addiction test never increases past 2 successes. Pretty well guaranteed success. The mechanics of addiction itself are pretty clear... it's that it appears that a tough troll has an extremely small chance of becoming addicted to Kamikaze. By my calculation at http://anydice.com/program/368e just a little over 5% to acquire a minor addiction. Which pretty much means that if he gets a minor addiction, he can just stop for a couple weeks and he's good to go.

or he can just keep taking it regularly (after the soak is dealt with) and mostly not get an addiction. Troll Drug Adepts!

[lawndart]

Firebug, I have that particular flowchart saved already, it just doesn't cover the multiple use issue. If you use the drug once per week, that easy. If you use the drug 4 times a day every day for 2 weeks, I feel like a Threshold 3 test isn't really enough. I'd like to do something like "Every use after the first increases the Addiction Threshold by 1" or "Increases the Rating by 1" or something, but that seems like it could make everyone drop dead of Soykaf abuse.

[ZeConster]

Introducing restrictions at this point will be tricky, since the player might take offense, but one possibility is to not allow Edge on addiction tests. That gives him a 5.4% chance of failing, and even a Minor Addiction will cost Karma to get rid off, I think.
It's also possible other books will introduce optional rules (I believe 4th edition had something about increased danger with frequent usage or using multiple drugs at the same time).
And of course, there's the roleplay section of the drug:

The repeated use of kamikaze has a destructive effect on the user’s metabolism. Large doses can cause excitement, tremors, momentary euphoria, and dilated pupils. Excess doses (bordering on overdose level) cause anxiety, hallucinations, and uncontrolled muscular movements. Even higher dosages lead to death. Kamikaze users are near-crazed, filled with a feeling of imperviousness and invincibility, exhibiting almost no regard for their own well-being. They can be entertaining to watch, as long as you’re not in front of them.

So you could just make him roleplay the effects of the drug. The first time, he simply acts like he's invincible. If he uses it a second time without 8 hours of sleep inbetween, he'll be overly-excited until the drug wears off, and his hands won't stop shaking during the crash period. Third time or more? Make him notice strange figures with glowing eyes in the shadows out of the corner of his eyes that disappear when he turns to face them, make him hear the growling of hellhounds, give him leg spasms... the more frequently he uses it, the more the side-effects move from slightly-inconvenient to might-actually-endanger-the-team. Once the group realizes it's Kamikaze doing this, he'll probably end up saving the drug for when it really counts - for most fights, he can use a less dangerous drug or ask for an Increase Reflexes spell, so it's not like this will break his potential. And of course, as long as your group enjoys roleplaying, this will not upset them the way Kamikaze-nerfing houserules will.

I forgot to save the username of who wrote that...  It wasn't me, that's for sure.

Hi.

[Reaver]

page 414, Bold by me

Every time you use an addictive substance during (11
— Addiction Rating) weeks in a row, you need to make an
Addiction Test

So you establish you time frame: (11-addiction rating weeks), in this case 2 weeks.

To me, this reads as: Every time after the first time, in 14 days that he takes the Drug, he makes an addiction test. thus if in 14 days he takes 43 hits of the drug, he makes 42 addiction tests. If he passes each and every one, party on. If he fails, now he's got a party habit.

[Mithlas]

It seems a great deal of the questions revolve around how addiction works. This has been a question for me as well (my street sam player has been thinking that the mage character we call "Combustion Man" should be dealing with magic addiction), so I will attempt to summarize how it all works so we know how it works. If I have any inaccuracies, please point them out. Normally I try to discuss how it works in 4th and 5th edition, but 5th is much more complete so I'm going to focus on that.

Once a trigger (magic foci, drugs and stimulant magic spells) is used, a countdown timer of (11 - Addiction Rating) weeks starts. Most drugs are in the table on SR5 414, for Foci use the total Force of all active foci to determine the addiction rating. I presume that magic spells like Crank (4E SM 169) will use Force as the addiction rating and will use an Addiction Threshold of 2 like simsense stimulation although a threshold of 1 like Long Haul is also possible.

Algernon is a troll with with Body 7, Will 4. Sometimes in combat, he has an allotment of Kamikaze to use to boost his chances and has a Mild addiction. Late on Monday, his building is raided and he takes a dose, which begins a (11-9)=2 week timer, at a threshold of 3.

As of now, any time Algernon wants to use Kamikaze, he has to worry about rolling to strengthen the addiction. Technically that week counter would start exactly at that time he used, but most tables probably use a lot of abstractions to simplify bookkeeping and might decide that counter begins on the next day. That would be "week 1". He would need to stay clean for 9 weeks (the Addiction Rating) before being able to make an Addiction Test to see if he can kick (buy off) the negative quality. Since Kamikaze is a Physical addiction he would roll (Body 7 + Will 4 - 2 Mild Addiction)=9.

As he posted it cleanly and simply, I'm going to modify a quote from ZeConster for the coming timing process:

If at any point in the next (Addiction Rating) weeks you use, the Addiction Threshold resets to its base value.

• Every 7 days after the trigger without using, the Addiction Threshold reduces by 1.
  
• If the threshold reduces to 0 you're in the clear and don't have to track it anymore...until you use again.
  
  • Keep the addiction threshold marked. If you make it (Addiction Rating) weeks, you can make an Addiction Test (or 2 if the addiction type is psychological and physiological), with appropriate modifiers.
    
  • If you succeed in staying clean for (Addiction Rating) weeks and pass the Addiction Test(s), then you may buy off the addiction quality.
    
    • If you failed any Addiction Test during this period, you now have a shiny new (or stronger) addiction to keep you company and impose negative dice pool modifiers.

So let's go back to Example 0 and see what happens if, on that following Tuesday, he gets into combat and has to take a dose to keep up.

Algernon is now in the addiction window, so he rolls to (7 Body + 4 Will - 2 Mild Addiction)=9 to resist. He rolls 4 hits, statistically above average and enough to exceed Kamikaze's threshold of 3.

Later that day, another melee starts and he has to take a dose to 'keep the edge'. Assuming he's been fully patched up from the previous fight, he would roll 9 again to resist (although with such a short span, I could see the GM imposing a penalty for having taken the drug recently). This time he only gets 3 hits

At this point, I'm not sure whether you have to equal or exceed the threshold - in Shadowrun, ties go to the defender except in the case of touch attacks, and in a sense the character is the defender so I suppose this would count as sufficient to stave off the addiction. However, what if it was 1 fewer hits? Even with a troll's dice pool, you're courting addiction if you're repeatedly using and if you've got a player wantonly using drugs then I see no problem with having a player have to pay karma for buying off an earned quality.

If the substance was soykaf (enough to warrant a new addiction test), it would look something like this:

During lunch on Monday, Algernon guzzles the 2-liter pot of soykaf in the break room. Although the book doesn't explicitly say what type, I'm guessing that caffeine is a psychological addiction given the lack of research to date to indicate that it rewires the brain like alcohol or heroin does. He rolls (4 Logic + 4 Willpower) and gets 2 hits, meeting the threshold. If Tuesday comes and he downs another liter of soykaf, he's got to resist again, and he would have to be cautious until next Monday (for the 1 week, the Addiction Rating).

If the substance was alcohol, it would look something like this:

During dinner on Monday, Algernon downs a case of beer. Being a physical addiction, he rolls (7 Body + 4 Willpower)=11 to resist and gets 3 hits, enough to beat the threshold of 2 for addiction to alcohol. He would have to watch himself for the next 3 weeks (alcohol's Addiction Rating) or risk another Addiction Test.

[Reaver]

all you need is to reach the threshold on a test. So in this case of the addiction test, 3 successes are needed.

[firebug]

Mithlas, I'm confused though.  If the character is immediately rolling when they first take the addictive substance with the full threshold the first time they use it, the rules say it would go down over time and make it so they'd be less likely to get addicted after they start using it.  Do you see my logic?  You wait a week and the addiction threshold goes down by 1.  From what you said then, if they drank again, then they'd make another test, but this time only need 1 hit.  But if they waited the full three weeks and the addiction "went away", then suddenly it's harder to resist because the threshold goes back up to 2...  Unless you're saying it'd go back up to the normal threshold?  In which case, why bother having it go down or keeping track at all if it's going to always be at max threshold and always rolled immediately when it's used?

[Mithlas]

From what I understand, the addiction test doesn't need to be made until the end of the window when you'd roll to see if you're able to shake off the addiction. Rolling again within the window is to determine whether you gain or improve the addiction. If you don't use for a while, then it's easier to shake off an addiction, which is what the reducing threshold is meant to represent. The addiction doesn't just go away, that's the window necessary before you can make that test to determine if you're able to kick the habit.

If the character drinks again, then the threshold is reset and I think the window begins again. The character can't drop the cravings until after waiting out the window.

Now based on my understanding, you don't need to roll the addiction threshold unless you either have the addiction quality already, or you've used previously and you're still in the window.