[Oski]

As background, I'm designing and GMing a campaign using 5e rules but starting in 2072.  That way I've got the benefit of established world lore occurring from 2072-2075 to let unfold as the players move through the campaign.

My question is what a computer terminal is like in that timeframe.  I'm setting up a small apartment unit.  In the living area it's got a trideo, basic furnishings, and what I'm setting up as a computer terminal as a central control point for all the electronics of the apartment (which I'll discuss further below).  The kitchen area has basically a smart fridge which can track the quantity and quality of all the food inside and regulate temperature for separated areas of the fridge accordingly.  Likewise a smart oven/stove that can be preheated remotely.  The kitchen stuff is basically like what's set forth on page 218 of the 5e sourcebook.

So that returns me to that computer terminal.  It's basically a modified commlink.  A bit more powerful in terms of device rating than a comparably-priced commlink (probably +1 or +2 rating over a commlink of equal price), but probably about 10 times as large (like netbook or notebook sized instead of small smart-phone sized).  It's the master device for the apartment, protecting and giving access to the trideo, kitchen appliances, thermostat, door locks, anything else that works wirelessly/electronically.

All these things could be just left unslaved, and still controlled remotely by the owner (again, drawing from the example on page 218).  The advantages of my setup are that (1) if someone wants to provide another person access to the house, it simply means giving the invitee a mark to the master terminal, not a mark to each underlying appliance.  (2) The master terminal also allows for a degree of matrix protection for the slaved devices.  (3) The master terminal allows a point of control for someone either lacking a commlink or whose commlink is broken.  And (4) the terminal has a keyboard and screen, for anyone who cannot access AR (commlinks have this too, but the commlink is so small that doing any sort of control in that sort of interface would be a pain).

My next step would be to similarly have these sorts of computer terminals in businesses.  The idea might be that for businesses that do not have extraterritoriality, and thus do not have the kind of control over their employees that the AAA's and some AA's have, computer terminals allow the business a greater degree of control over its information than having its employees purely access it through commlinks or the matrix.

Note that I don't reference cyberdecks here.  Cyberdecks are super-expensive, restricted devices designed for hacking.  The average person can't afford one (they cost more than most cars), and low-end businesses might have one for a spider, but that'd be about it.  Computer terminals would not grant sleaze or attack stats, which is why I'm comparing them to powered-up commlinks rather than decks.

Does all this make sense within the context of Shadowrun lore?  Is there any place I can find more information about this element of things?

NOTE: Edited typo out of topic

[Namikaze]

I have wondered about terminals as well.  I can't imagine that everyone just uses commlinks for all their computing needs.  However, with the prevalence of AR and VR, terminals may not even be necessary.  One could have an AR keyboard, perform all matrix actions via DNI, etc.  So maybe terminals simply don't exist the way they do now.

[DeathStrobe]

Sounds like a Nexi or maybe a low end host, if we don't see Nexi make a comeback.

You can read up on Nexi in Unwired. I think they were kind of cheaper then commlinks, but capable of allowing more connections to commlinks then a commlink itself. They're also bigger, though not actually more powerful than a commlink.

[RHat]

Point: The thing about companies having people use these terminals instead of letting people access things through AR is contradictory to stuff laid out in SR4, where it's made clear that employees expect, and are quite reasonable in doing so, that they can just do their work over AR.  You can still keep control of the information just fine, too, so the supposed advantage doesn't work so well either.

[psycho835]

Does that means that a terminals are completely out? I'm having a hard time picturing a lab that consists out of a 5x5m room with a table, a commlink on it, few chairs and anti-wireless paint on walls and doors.

[Michael Chandra]

I'm now picturing the hologram table from S.H.I.E.L.D. as lab.

[Namikaze]

Does that means that a terminals are completely out? I'm having a hard time picturing a lab that consists out of a 5x5m room with a table, a commlink on it, few chairs and anti-wireless paint on walls and doors.

Picture this: you have a cubicle, you have a chair.  Your cubicle is NOT designed for comfort or long-term use.  It's barely bigger than you are.  You go in at the beginning of your day, plug in your DNI to your commlink.  You work in cold-sim VR, in an office space that's luxurious and spacious.  Maybe the company provides you a commlink for use, but there really isn't a need for terminals in SR5.

[Oski]

There's a lot to consider, at least for me.

First, I think that a reasonable envisioning of the future has no more computer terminals.  Miniaturization and invention will probably have thumbdrive-sized computers by the 2070's with more power and memory than anything even possible at present.  Once technology makes the jump to hologram keyboards and projected images or mental links, then monitors become obsolete.

Second, however, I think that for the sake of the game, gameplay needs to be balanced against the sci-fi creativity and realism.  From that perspective, I think the question needs to be asked, if you have an information-based corporation (say, an accounting firm, or a political lobbiest firm, or any sort of consulting firm, or hundreds of other possibilities) what becomes the point of an office if you're envisioning a terminal-free world?  Why would employees come to a centralized location, if their only equipment is their own commlink, which wirelessly connects to the company's host and has the employee doing his/her own thing?  Sure, the AAA's would still have offices, because that's sovereign territory.  And any company that makes a product or delivers a service (Federated-Boeing, Gaeatronics, Lone Star, DocWagon) would have physical facilities.  But why anything else?

Right now, I still like my own proposed idea.  The computer terminals that I'm envisioning are not desktop PCs.  They're commlinks, at about 10x the size and about 3x the power.  In a company setting, they are direct connected to the host.  The employee reports to work and accesses the terminal the same way that he/she would access his/her own commlink.  This could be through DNI or AR vision to access the terminal in AR, or through use of a screen if any employee doesn't have the ability to access AR.  The 5e book notes that there are people who do not like AR, which I think is understandable given that accessing it means either augmentation, contacts, goggles, or trodes, and I would envision there to be some people who find permanently affixing any of those things unpleasant.

[Namikaze]

Right now, I still like my own proposed idea.  The computer terminals that I'm envisioning are not desktop PCs.  They're commlinks, at about 10x the size and about 3x the power.  In a company setting, they are direct connected to the host.  The employee reports to work and accesses the terminal the same way that he/she would access his/her own commlink.  This could be through DNI or AR vision to access the terminal in AR, or through use of a screen if any employee doesn't have the ability to access AR.  The 5e book notes that there are people who do not like AR, which I think is understandable given that accessing it means either augmentation, contacts, goggles, or trodes, and I would envision there to be some people who find permanently affixing any of those things unpleasant.

I'd be down for that.  I do like the idea of a terminal - it should be more powerful than a commlink, perhaps naturally with no wifi enabled (for security's sake).  These has rules in Unwired, kind of.  They were treated with average stats (device rating 3) for most terminals.  What Unwired didn't really talk about was the application of terminals.  And they didn't really discuss why people would use terminals instead of commlinks.  The only note in there that seems to support terminal use is that you could have multiple personas in a single environment.  Since that's not the case in 5th edition (a persona takes over a device and two personas can't share a device) I'm not really sure what role a terminal would play.

I'd think for security reasons alone a terminal might be a better option.  Have the wageslave plug in when he/she gets to the office, they work in a VR environment for 14 hours, and go home.  Meanwhile, all the information is hard-wired into the nexus.  Unfortunately without a topology of the Matrix 2.1, we don't really understand exactly what we're dealing with.  To be fair though, the topology of the Matrix 2.0 wasn't discussed in-depth until Unwired came out, either.  So needless to say, I'm excited to see what Data Trails brings to the party.

[Reaver]

some times, shit stays around just cause it is ideal just the way it is....


Terminals could still be around and used in the same fashion they have been used for decades, just cause people "want" something on the wall to watch or use instead of their commlink..

However, these devices are probably controlled by AR or voice commands and not by a traditional means.

[Namikaze]

However, these devices are probably controlled by AR or voice commands and not by a traditional means.

I can definitely see the proliferation of AR keyboards and DNI being an issue.  Even if a terminal still exists, I think you're right about the lack of peripherals.

[Reaver]

However, these devices are probably controlled by AR or voice commands and not by a traditional means.

I can definitely see the proliferation of AR keyboards and DNI being an issue.  Even if a terminal still exists, I think you're right about the lack of peripherals.

lets face it, look at phones, the internet, and entertainment.

you can now get a phone and watch TV on it to your heart's content (or until the battery drains out... so 4 hours ). Internet has been available on a pone for forever....

And yet we still use laptops and desktops hooked up to 30" monitors.... and have our big screen TVs for our movies and what not.


and Now, you can get a "Smart" TV! SO you can take your 80" TV, hook up your laptop and do your internet searching, gaming and TV viewing on one Giant screen!! (you have NOT played Mech Warrior Online until you play it on a huge screen in 7.1 surround sound in a black room. My Neighbours hate me)



Same thing here.... Sometimes people just want a big screen

[Sendaz]

Would they even use a physical screen at work, since the AR goggles would allow them to see it in any size or form they want.

yes some people might not like AR, and for the high ups or special employees some exceptions may be made, but would the company shell out good money on monitors for the drones?

The boss and / or security could always tap that view to check up on the user, so they don't even have to leave their desk to look over your virtual shoulder.

[Reaver]

Would they even use a physical screen at work, since the AR goggles would allow them to see it in any size or form they want.

yes some people might not like AR, and for the high ups or special employees some exceptions may be made, but would the company shell out good money on monitors for the drones?

The boss and / or security could always tap that view to check up on the user, so they don't even have to leave their desk to look over your virtual shoulder.

Hard to say if companies would shell out for monitors...

This is cause we have no "AR/VR" devices on the level of what is proposed.

The few little "wearable" computers I have tried out all had some form of "eye screen" with them, and they were.... troublesome to use to say the least..

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

lets face it, look at phones, the internet, and entertainment.

This right here.

I honestly can't imagine not having laptop/desktop computers.  A commlink is like - really, is - the 1st edition 'pocket secretary'.  It's the smartphone, boosted.  Sure, we have the 'why have memory' thing from 4e, but there are a million and one reasons why you want to not have your information 'out there', and even though people barely manage to keep stuff from blabbing everything even today, there's something about being able to ...

...work in private ...
... test your code before sending it off ...
... build a 'deck for 1/10th the price ('breadboarding' it) ...
... actually possess the code you just bought ...
... be able to get up, stretch, and leave your work behind for a moment ...

From the start, I didn't like the idea of ubiquitous 'required' commlinks, because god knows today I can't afford a smartphone, much less a dataplan.  Only if they were literally giving them away free, with free everything for life, could I afford it right now.  And in a way, that viewpoint - that you could suddenly do on a smartphone what previously required a dedicated high-quality unit - meant that 'haxxorz R uz' scriptkiddies would run away with the universe; and in a way, they did, which (I think) is why 'Matrix 2.1' got rolled out, to scrap that 'buy the right programs, become a Matrix god', and reintroducing a realm very nearly exclusively for the decker meant that you could no longer be a Matrix adept.

Would tabletop computers still exist? Sure, just like televisions/trideos would, and sim/movie houses, and personal physical dance clubs.  Just like hand-turned lathes and drills still exist in the Shadowrun world.  Maybe not in vast quantities, but ... I personally think they would.