[Ixal]

1. As far as I know there are no GDs which are only known to runners. But there are some which have only appeared once and never mentioned again (like Snowflake/Schneeflocke in a German book)
2. No, they knew that he was out there and that he will come back (if he was not killed).
3. As others have said, with the downtime hunting there certainly are unaccounted dragons. And even Dunkelzahn speculated (means he didn't know) that there is a Aztlan/Aztechnology Great Dragon.
4. Age is a factor but I think Dragons of the 6th World or Clutch of Dragons mentioned that there have to be other factors, too as there are older "normal" dragons than Masaru.

By the way, in some book there is also a rumor/shadowtalk that one of the greats tried (or still tries) to become something greater than a great dragon. Super Sajajin 2 as the Jackpointer puts it. I think it was one of the eastern dragons.

[ImaginalDisc]

By the way, in some book there is also a rumor/shadowtalk that one of the greats tried (or still tries) to become something greater than a great dragon. Super Sajajin 2 as the Jackpointer puts it. I think it was one of the eastern dragons.

Well, it would have to be an Eastern Dragon.

<.<

[Reaver]

1. As far as I know there are no GDs which are only known to runners. But there are some which have only appeared once and never mentioned again (like Snowflake/Schneeflocke in a German book)
2. No, they knew that he was out there and that he will come back (if he was not killed).
3. As others have said, with the downtime hunting there certainly are unaccounted dragons. And even Dunkelzahn speculated (means he didn't know) that there is a Aztlan/Aztechnology Great Dragon.
4. Age is a factor but I think Dragons of the 6th World or Clutch of Dragons mentioned that there have to be other factors, too as there are older "normal" dragons than Masaru.

By the way, in some book there is also a rumor/shadowtalk that one of the greats tried (or still tries) to become something greater than a great dragon. Super Sajajin 2 as the Jackpointer puts it. I think it was one of the eastern dragons.

not sure.. but I think it was Lung... looking into some sort of Triad mysticism....

[Crimsondude]

I like to think that dragons are more inclined towards the "up or out" process.


Which is why the Known Adults:Known Greats ratio is around 100:1.

Really? Goodness. Citation?

Dragons of the Sixth World has someone state that there are less than 2,500 adults worldwide. DotSW, Running Wild, and The Clutch of Dragons have all made in-character and OOC references to "dozens (if not hundreds)," and no official number has ever been given. Given the scope of adult vassals and casualties in Storm Front, with references to some Greats having just under a dozen adults serving them, that the total is likely to be ... anywhere between 250-300 at the low end and less than 2,000 at the upper limit.

There are 20-24 identified Great Dragons, depending on when you're counting, and narrative from their conclaves and other great dragon-based narratives suggest  that there are none or very few who have not been identified in various products. To date, the only adult dragon that has become a Great during the Sixth World is Masaru.

I have tried to read up on the dragons of the sixth world as much as possible, but I there are some mysteries that make things unclear.

1. Are all the Great Dragons in the world known by the metahumans of the Sixth World and accounted for, or are some Great Dragons only known in the deepest Shadows?

That depends on whether the Aztechnology dragon exists, and if so that it is a Great Dragon. Otherwise, not to my knowledge. Though what the public knows; what the shadows know; what DIVE knows; and what (DIVE's) dragon hunters know are all different. Material presented in-character via JackPoint is the most any shadowrunner, or really any character, would know beyond special proprietary information known only to them and their circle(s). Especially when it comes to the information in The Clutch of Dragons and Storm Front.


The world still doesn't even know where Nadja Daviar was for nine years, and as far as I'm concerned I alone have mentioned enough media and public appearances that she's definitely been asked directly on multiple occasions.

2. When Ghostwalker came out of the astral were the other dragons saying "About time?" or were they surprised?

They probably figured he was returning eventually.

One of Ryumyo's top agents just happened to be at the treaty event when he returned.

Perianwyr "overclocked" the theoretically limits of what he was capable of when he levitated a group of 20-50 metahumans at Mach 6+ speeds very shortly upon seeing Ghostwalker's reaction to the Azzie delegation. Take that as you will.

Pobre "took a stand."

As for the metahumans, you get everything from unashamed delight (PCC President) to anger (Colloton) to deathly fear (I didn't say who, so you can play with that), and the Azzies. They just ... smiled.

It was supposed to be a moment no one would forget. The Powers That Be wanted to remind the world just who exactly was in charge.

They got their wish.

Goddamn, I still smile that I got to write that. And this:

> Casus what? Kay, I’m not good with this political nonsense. So does this mean the Salish could try and claim Seattle? What happens then?
> Nephrine

> Disaster.
> Cosmo

3. When the dragons gather, as they have when the title of Loremaster was contested, do they do a headcount and find some lesser and greater dragons unaccounted for since the Fourth Age?

There have been references, and in some pieces their internal dialogue have specifically noted absences that can be accounted for various reasons. But they do not discuss it aloud. There is deep, deep protocol to draconic exchanges—Great Dragons even moreso—that demands great subtlety.

4. I know it's been kept vague, but how does a lesser dragon become "Great?"

It's a secret.

[ImaginalDisc]

I like to think that dragons are more inclined towards the "up or out" process.


Which is why the Known Adults:Known Greats ratio is around 100:1.

Really? Goodness. Citation?

Dragons of the Sixth World has someone state that there are less than 2,500 adults worldwide. DotSW, Running Wild, and The Clutch of Dragons have all made in-character and OOC references to "dozens (if not hundreds)," and no official number has ever been given. Given the scope of adult vassals and casualties in Storm Front, with references to some Greats having just under a dozen adults serving them, that the total is likely to be ... anywhere between 250-300 at the low end and less than 2,000 at the upper limit.

There are 20-24 identified Great Dragons, depending on when you're counting, and narrative from their conclaves and other great dragon-based narratives suggest  that there are none or very few who have not been identified in various products. To date, the only adult dragon that has become a Great during the Sixth World is Masaru.

Fantastic. I have to read Dragons of the Sixth World. Thanks.

I bring this up because I introduced a dragon in my game and. . .making the dragon a Great as a matter of course seemed too cliche. I rather like the idea of the dragon that is REDACTED one of many ambitious dragons.

GMing to me is like playing a sandbox. Shadowrun is providing a sandbox. However, slipping in a previously unknown Great into my game almost feels like running into the fence at the edge of the playground - it's going too far.

[Reaver]

well there are lots of "regular" dragons to play with

And they have an astounding array of personalities (like hard rocking, harder drinking, assassin turned club owner Peri!)

[Ixal]

GMing to me is like playing a sandbox. Shadowrun is providing a sandbox. Howeber, Slipping in a previously unknown Great into my game almost feel like running into the fence at the edge of the playground - it's going too far.

Feel free to do whatever you want in your campaign.
And as I said, if you want to have some "validation" in the official lore, there are several Great Dragons which were not mentioned much, although many of them in German Only products (like Snowflake I mentioned). And there is also the 3rd dragon of Amazonia.

[Crimsondude]

Just to compare, there are 11 dragons in the Earthdawn Dragons PDF FASA released as it closed its doors. That's the one I treat as canon. 11 dragons, most greats, just in Barsaive. There are now only twice that many greats worldwide.

GMing to me is like playing a sandbox. Shadowrun is providing a sandbox. However, slipping in a previously unknown Great into my game almost feel like running into the fence at the edge of the playground - it's going too far.

That's the idea. We just write the metaphorical plastic buckets, shovels, and other toys you may or may not want to use while in that sandbox.

[ImaginalDisc]

Just to compare, there are 11 dragons in the Earthdawn Dragons PDF FASA released as it closed its doors. That's the one I treat as canon. 11 dragons, most greats, just in Barsaive. There are now only twice that many greats worldwide.

GMing to me is like playing a sandbox. Shadowrun is providing a sandbox. However, slipping in a previously unknown Great into my game almost feel like running into the fence at the edge of the playground - it's going too far.

That's the idea. We just write the metaphorical plastic buckets, shovels, and other toys you may or may not want to use while in that sandbox.

I'm reminded of Exalted. In it there are 13 Deathlords - immensely powerful ghosts of the Princes of the Earth from a bygone age. The writers provided detailed character profiles, histories, and goals for ten. They leave the other three for GM's to create.

On the other hand, the themes of Shadowrun and Exalted are almost completely opposite.

[RustedChrome]

I like to think that dragons are more inclined towards the "up or out" process.

Reading this and lurking on the other boards I saw this and thought wonderful the dragons are the clans

Then again they do have higher tech than humans
They have their own culture and weird language
They were here and then they went away and came back and shook things up big time
And can you ever remember a dragon using a contraction?

[Namikaze]

I like to think that dragons are more inclined towards the "up or out" process.

Reading this and lurking on the other boards I saw this and thought wonderful the dragons are the clans

Then again they do have higher tech than humans
They have their own culture and weird language
They were here and then they went away and came back and shook things up big time
And can you ever remember a dragon using a contraction?

What?  Dude, you need to punctuate your posts.  You also need to speak coherently.

[Sendaz]

I like to think that dragons are more inclined towards the "up or out" process.

Reading this and lurking on the other boards I saw this and thought wonderful the dragons are the clans

Then again they do have higher tech than humans
They have their own culture and weird language
They were here and then they went away and came back and shook things up big time
And can you ever remember a dragon using a contraction?

What?  Dude, you need to punctuate your posts.  You also need to speak coherently.

Heh,

Battletech reference. :p

However the point about use of contractions does not hold up.

Pg 8 Clutch of Dragons has a Dragon using "I'm" so contractions are acceptable among some of the scalies at least. 

[Longshot23]

2. When Ghostwalker came out of the astral were the other dragons saying "About time?" or were they surprised?

I have the impression that you mean the first time, when Ghostwalker first appeared, in 2061. There was an interesting sidebar in Year of the Comet, which first covered Ghostwalker.

THE WYRMS TALK
Posted: 01-02-62
Hestaby: “Ghostwalker … is a presence that has been sorely needed in the Sixth World. I only wish that he could have returned sooner. His
actions in Denver are not entirely unexpected. In all frankness, were any of us put in a similar stressful position, we would do the same.
However, times have changed. May he resolve things to his satisfaction, and quickly.”
Hualpa: “Ghostwalker has been rash, but I admit to some admiration for his tactics. They are bold and unexpected, and display great cunning
worthy of his respected sire. I urge him to caution, however. He may be stepping on toes best left untouched.”
Lofwyr: “No comment.”
Lung: “Greetings to the one who has returned. Retake what is yours, but do not forget that which belongs to others.”
Masaru: “We have not met yet, but I feel a kinship with Ghostwalker nonetheless. It is my hope that we may find the time to visit with one
another and exchange ideas. Perhaps they are not dissimilar. I wish him luck.”
Mujaji: “What can be said of Ghostwalker that has not already been said? He is not unknown to us. But he has a great many things yet to
learn. I can only convey my formal greetings to him.”
Rhonabwy: “I issue my condolences for his loss.”
Ryumyo: “A flighty one with the weight of years behind him. Ghostwalker may find his appearance not unplanned for, and old
alliances may be forged anew or crumbled to dust. Salutations, Lost One. Plan wisely.”

The Dragons who didn't comment are as distinctive as the ones who did.

[psycho835]

Lofwyr: “No comment.”

I just got a hilarious mental image of Lofwr getting out of a limo, only to immediatly get swarmed by reporters.

[Shock223]

Lofwyr: “No comment.”

I just got a hilarious mental image of Lofwr getting out of a limo, only to immediatly get swarmed by reporters.

Drones. Even the paparazzi have a sense of self preservation.