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Hermetic verses Shaman

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RHat

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« Reply #45 on: <04-03-14/1938:47> »
Be glad it ain't a cute little Tibetan Mastiff pup, because those turn into this:

http://imgur.com/4K61Z1S
MOUSE!

The hilarious thing?  Mouse is supposed to be huge relative to other members of that breed.  :P
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martinchaen

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« Reply #46 on: <04-04-14/0928:53> »
Why on Earth would you disallow a player to use Edge on his Addiction test? Unless you're using Missions rules, which require you to buy hits on "permanent" effects and anything that occurs in downtime, I see absolutely no reason not to allow one of my players to use the resources at his disposal for the benefit of his character...

ZeConster

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« Reply #47 on: <04-04-14/1034:26> »
Why on Earth would you disallow a player to use Edge on his Addiction test? Unless you're using Missions rules, which require you to buy hits on "permanent" effects and anything that occurs in downtime, I see absolutely no reason not to allow one of my players to use the resources at his disposal for the benefit of his character...
I see 2 possible reasons: because addiction tests are too easily cheesed otherwise (if you allow Edge, you're already 80%-90% down the slope towards "allow them to them buy hits"), and because there is already a precedent for not allowing Edge on some tests:
Quote from: Artificing rules
This counts as the culmination of all your work over the days, so you can’t use Edge for this test.
Besides, the only instances where a player cannot avoid an Addiction Test are Jazz (TH 1, both), Kamikaze (TH 2, mental), Nitro (TH 2, both) and Tripchip BTLs (TH 1). Meanwhile, Cram still gives +1D6 Initiative Dice, lasts longer, is cheaper, and can be used 4 weeks in a row followed by a 3-week cooldown without ever having to do an Addiction Test.
Let's use Nitro, the most dangerous drug when it comes to addiction tests, as an example:
  • Without Edge, someone with 8 dice on one and 11 on the other will have a ~74.45% chance of passing both tests, and that's without asking a Magician to buff you.
  • With Edge, someone with a measly 5 dice on both tests and 2 Edge will have a ~76.44% chance of passing both tests. Turn that into 8 dice on both tests, and suddenly you're dealing with ~96.69% - and having 2 buff spells for 11 dice each turns that into ~99.6% - and that's for the most dangerous drug.
And keep in mind this is with Second Chance, which beats Push the Limit for minimizing the chance at few hits unless you've got like 5+ Edge and only 5 base dice (second example: with 8 base dice, 7 Edge gives you a 98.34% with PtL versus 98.33% with SC at beating TH 2 tests), so all you need is 2 Edge for drugs that require both physical and mental tests.


TLDR: there's precedent in the rulebook for not allowing Edge usage on things that take multiple days, and Edge turns Addiction Tests from something to actually worry about a bit into almost 0 risk, without requiring you to actually have more than 2 Edge. Plus you could always use Magic to boost your odds, or use Cram.

martinchaen

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« Reply #48 on: <04-04-14/1150:59> »
Fair enough, I can see the mechanics advantage of doing so, but I guess I'm just not fond of having characters deal with addictions, so I see no reason to penalize players who want to dabble with drugs by not allowing them to use the resources at their disposal.

Disallowing the use of Edge may have precedence in the rules, but applying the same principle to Addiction tests is most certainly a house rule in this case, and not one I personally care for.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #49 on: <04-04-14/1443:33> »
Well if you dabble wit drugs you wont have an addiction test.  If you use drugs to replace other sources of power and therefore use them consistently, yeah you get addiction tests.  And allowing people to basically hand wave them away with an addiction test would be like saying you can spend edge to avoid essence loss form cyber. Addiction is the essence loss of the drug based power source.

martinchaen

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« Reply #50 on: <04-04-14/1452:28> »
Shinobi
I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement on the simple basis that you're stating it as fact rather than opinion, even when that opinion clearly goes against the rules. Disallowing the use of edge on Addiction tests is not the rule, rather it is a choice some CMs choose to make; as such, I believe that allowing the use of Edge on Addiction test is staying within the intention of the designers who created the ruleset, and not "handwaving" anything.

I'm fine with you having a preference, but I'd prefer it if you could try to not come across as belittling my opinion when stating yours.

ZeConster

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« Reply #51 on: <04-04-14/1455:42> »
I'm fine with you having a preference, but I'd prefer it if you could try to not come across as belittling my opinion when stating yours.
Quick FYI: when you use "no reason to" to describe someone else's preference, you also come across a bit as belittling their opinion.

martinchaen

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« Reply #52 on: <04-04-14/1458:51> »
ZeConster
The difference being that I clearly stated a personal preference applying to me abd my table only, whereas others have made sweeping statements that seemingly apply to everyone. In any case, I've said my piece and received the feedback I was seeking, so I'm out.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #53 on: <04-04-14/1513:40> »
Shinobi
I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement on the simple basis that you're stating it as fact rather than opinion, even when that opinion clearly goes against the rules. Disallowing the use of edge on Addiction tests is not the rule, rather it is a choice some CMs choose to make; as such, I believe that allowing the use of Edge on Addiction test is staying within the intention of the designers who created the ruleset, and not "handwaving" anything.

I'm fine with you having a preference, but I'd prefer it if you could try to not come across as belittling my opinion when stating yours.

It was not meant to belittle, just to express my opinion on the subject. I don't feel the need to put IMO on every statement I make. No one is making sweeping statements that should apply to anyone elses tables, this is a forum unless we are expressly discussing RAW everything we say is out opinion on how we feel things should get handled. And even then its just an opinion on what you think RAW is. 

I am sorry though if my message was misinterpreted. Even without expressly putting in IMO it probably could have been clearer.

ZeConster

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« Reply #54 on: <04-04-14/1544:31> »
The difference being that I clearly stated a personal preference applying to me abd my table only, whereas others have made sweeping statements that seemingly apply to everyone.
Yet that is not how your post came across to me - an example of my point that thinking the other side is making sweeping statements because of the way they phrased their personal opinion works both ways.

teknoide

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« Reply #55 on: <04-04-14/1805:43> »
For the drugs, don't forget that when you do a test for an addiction test, you have to do all the addiction test for all the addictive substance

So let's imagine : cram, psyche and 5 points of focus

5 weeks 3 addiction tests to do, 6 weeks 3 addictions tests and 7 weeks 3 addictions test to do and so on.

With a bad logic it can be nasty.

CanRay

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« Reply #56 on: <04-04-14/1953:28> »
as such, I believe that allowing the use of Edge on Addiction test is staying within the intention of the designers who created the ruleset, and not "handwaving" anything.
As such, maybe talk to said writer!  I'm right here!

I'd suggest basing it on the group and how harsh they want a game (The "Pink Mohawk" vs "Black Trenchcoat" discussions prove that one size does not fit all!).  Hardcore would be no Edge allowed.  A bit easier would allow Edge, but still have the addiction as a major threat.

Shadowrun:  Brony Edition, why are you even using the addiction rules?  Let's get Pinkie Pie loaded on Novacoke, Betameth, and Long Haul and see how long the party can last!  ;D
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Reaver

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« Reply #57 on: <04-04-14/2118:44> »
<in a high pitched brony voice>
"Nooo-ooo Canray! Drugs are baaad!!!"
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Aranador

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« Reply #58 on: <04-05-14/0044:11> »
Shadowrun:  Brony Edition, why are you even using the addiction rules?  Let's get Pinkie Pie loaded on Novacoke, Betameth, and Long Haul and see how long the party can last!  ;D

Oh - can we please get an ETA for the Brony edition?  I think I need that ASAP.

CanRay

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« Reply #59 on: <04-05-14/0146:59> »
<in a high pitched brony voice>
"Nooo-ooo Canray! Drugs are baaad!!!"
Then why is my drug book selling so well?  *Evil GM Laugh*
Shadowrun:  Brony Edition, why are you even using the addiction rules?  Let's get Pinkie Pie loaded on Novacoke, Betameth, and Long Haul and see how long the party can last!  ;D
Oh - can we please get an ETA for the Brony edition?  I think I need that ASAP.
Half-past never.  The IP negotiations alone would make Toxic Shamans think they've gone insane.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

 

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