[Bewilderbeast]

This is my own complete bonkers insanity. I'm not hoping to find anything even close to evidence for this in official canon or anything.

But one of the things I've found really, really odd was the transition to grids, GOD, and the "new" Matrix. I get that this was a rules/mechanics change that they kind of had to come up with an in-game explanation for. And I get the corporations' motivation for doing it, as well. Why wouldn't they want more control? But what I don't get, at all is how the general public and especially the highly skilled shadowrunner community is okay with the transition.

Suddenly, a generation or hackers and amateur programmers had a bunch of useless gear. When commlinks couldn't cut it anymore, a ton of people were locked out of the Matrix as anything but consumers. I understand that the Matrix-saavy makes up a tiny percentage of the population, so I'm sure these changes could've just been steamrolled through. But there would have at the very least been backlash. There would have been shadowruns aimed at stopping the rise of GOD, cyber attacks (whatever the Shadowrun equivalent of a DDOS attack is). Think of how excited even the average Internet user gets about net neutrality... this was a way, way bigger change than that.

It's been a while since I've read Stormfront, but what was always puzzling and chilling to me is that the experienced hackers and runners had the exact opposite reaction. When they got a glimpse at the new Matrix, they said it felt good. It felt familiar. It felt like home. I couldn't help but get a creepy brain-washy feeling from their descriptions.

Now stay with me here, this is where I make a huge leap and get kind of crazy. But... Technomancers. Just technomancers.

The Deep Resonance is supposed to be this sort of mystery aspect to the Matrix, but it connects Technomancers together, or brought the otaku into common tribes, right? It creates a feeling of harmony to some extent? And then there's Dissonance, which is exactly the opposite; strife and chaos in the Matrix. We know the corps have been experimenting with technomancers for a long time... what if GOD had a huge technomancer division? One that was flooding the grids with subtle "good vibes" in order to keep even the rebellious hackers unconsciously in check?

What if a powerful Johnson hired a team of runners to do serious, serious damage to GOD and the grid system? In the name of returning true freedom to the Matrix? And what if that Johnson turned out to be a serious Dissonant technomancer?

[Sendaz]

Darke 2.0?

[psycho835]

Darke 2.0?

Darke as an e-ghost?


...Oh,  frag...

[Sendaz]

Darke 2.0?

Darke as an e-ghost?


...Oh,  frag...

Evil Just Got An Upgrade

Even if not an e-ghost, given his last setbacks, could see him playing for some new masters....

[psycho835]

One of the topics discussed the idea that Dissonance is connected with the Horrors.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I get the sense that this is, at heart, two different topics.  As a consequence, I'll address them seperately.

This is my own complete bonkers insanity. I'm not hoping to find anything even close to evidence for this in official canon or anything.

But one of the things I've found really, really odd was the transition to grids, GOD, and the "new" Matrix. I get that this was a rules/mechanics change that they kind of had to come up with an in-game explanation for. And I get the corporations' motivation for doing it, as well. Why wouldn't they want more control? But what I don't get, at all is how the general public and especially the highly skilled shadowrunner community is okay with the transition.

Suddenly, a generation or hackers and amateur programmers had a bunch of useless gear. When commlinks couldn't cut it anymore, a ton of people were locked out of the Matrix as anything but consumers. I understand that the Matrix-saavy makes up a tiny percentage of the population, so I'm sure these changes could've just been steamrolled through. But there would have at the very least been backlash. There would have been shadowruns aimed at stopping the rise of GOD, cyber attacks (whatever the Shadowrun equivalent of a DDOS attack is). Think of how excited even the average Internet user gets about net neutrality... this was a way, way bigger change than that.

In essence, the Matrix is as it pretty much always has been - it's easy to access all of what the ordinary person needs.  Not only that, but the revised protocols are a return to more security for the consumer - when script-kiddies are tearing up Matrix banks, writing 'SLAMM-O WUZ HEER!!!11!' in AR across the Seattle skyline no matter where you happen to be standing, when petty-criminal activity is rampant and blatant and virtually unstoppable, I can't see how the changes wouldn't be demanded by 85+% of the population - virtually all of whom are Matrix users.  (Only Luddites and Mennonites, y'know?)

In addition, GOD has been around for years and years - since the Arcology went nipples-up, I believe, but maybe before.  (Someone else's search-fu can find a start date on that one.)  They are the best of the best of the best (sir!), licensed and charged with watching over the Matrix for all the people who are paying for the Matrix - the corporations.  Remember, these aren't n00bs sitting in a used-to-be-an-internet-porn-site-last-week location; these are top-notch deckers with the best that the top fifty corporations in the world can give to them, gunning for wiseacres just like ProDecker, hunting for threats to the Matrix as a whole (and their 'home Matrix zone' in particular).  Any corporation against their 'rise' would be ... not quickly, but eventually found out, and would have to answer directly to the Corporate Court.  Loss of license would be the least punishment.  I can't think of anything that would earn a corp an Omega Order faster than direct opposition to the entire Court.

However, understand that U²C (that's 'Upright Uptight Citizen' for you johnnie-come-latelys out there) is going to perceive very little difference in his Matrix experience.  In fact, he may find things to be a little better, because things are getting routed faster, with better tracking.  He can be confident that his money is vanishingly unlikely to be taken by some phone phreak with no knowledge but who can afford to buy a pricey commlink and some wizzer proggies.  He can be confident that if his money IS taken, The Authorities will be On Their Way, determined to Root Out Evil and get him his money back.

So selling Matrix 2.1?  Honestly, it's an easy sell to Joe Plumber.

As an addendum, I think that when you get down to it, doing dumbass 'ganger-level' crap like 'virtual graffiti' is still relatively easy.  It's the serious stuff that once again requires a professional with a pro board to get the job done.  You can no longer break into the SEC and the CIA with your cell-phone; you need a custom-built laptop once more.

It's been a while since I've read Stormfront, but what was always puzzling and chilling to me is that the experienced hackers and runners had the exact opposite reaction. When they got a glimpse at the new Matrix, they said it felt good. It felt familiar. It felt like home. I couldn't help but get a creepy brain-washy feeling from their descriptions.

Now stay with me here, this is where I make a huge leap and get kind of crazy. But... Technomancers. Just technomancers.

The Deep Resonance is supposed to be this sort of mystery aspect to the Matrix, but it connects Technomancers together, or brought the otaku into common tribes, right? It creates a feeling of harmony to some extent? And then there's Dissonance, which is exactly the opposite; strife and chaos in the Matrix. We know the corps have been experimenting with technomancers for a long time... what if GOD had a huge technomancer division? One that was flooding the grids with subtle "good vibes" in order to keep even the rebellious hackers unconsciously in check?

What if a powerful Johnson hired a team of runners to do serious, serious damage to GOD and the grid system? In the name of returning true freedom to the Matrix? And what if that Johnson turned out to be a serious Dissonant technomancer?

This would likely be a goal of Pax, presuming she hasn't been axed yet.

However, here's my question for you: why spend millions of nuyen, even billions, every year in order to keep a huge bunch of technomancers either happy or on life support, when they can simply embed code they already have (minor 'fuzzy warm feelings' psychotropics and their use in corporate environments have been in the game, thus in the game world, for at least two IC decades) into the core programming for the updated protocols?

It isn't the outre' that's the scariest thing out there; it's the 'we'll just tweak this little thing to make everyone's experience ... better'.  River Tam's Miranda, you know?

[Bewilderbeast]

I was genuinely not aware that GOD existed prior to SR5. I thought the name "Grid Overwatch Division" sort of came hand-in-hand with the concept of grids as a fictional and mechanical concept. So thanks for that insight. When was the term Grid Overwatch Division first used? Or do you just mean that there were corp and government bodies that oversaw the Matrix before SR5 (because of course I assumed that... but it seems like the Matrix 2.1 and the formal creation of GOD are kind of a game-changer, at least from the perspective of the shadow community).

However, here's my question for you: why spend millions of nuyen, even billions, every year in order to keep a huge bunch of technomancers either happy or on life support, when they can simply embed code they already have (minor 'fuzzy warm feelings' psychotropics and their use in corporate environments have been in the game, thus in the game world, for at least two IC decades) into the core programming for the updated protocols?

Because pyschotropics is still code, and therefore detectable to those with technical knowledge. Which, granted, is a fraction of the population. But I think people forget that the big corps are still corporations; they're still in constant economic war with one another. All it takes is one technically proficient person saying, "Hey, this new public grid set up is laced with brain-washing psychotropic code!" and then that one person putting in an anonymous tip to Horizon. Sure, Horizon can benefit from the Matrix 2.1... but wouldn't it also benefit from headlines that say "MCT, Renraku, et al are Brainwashing You!"

Technomancer and Resonance hijinks are all but undetectable, except to other technomancers... and it's not like a technomancer can go to his local Horizon affiliate Action 5 News Team and report it, because the top story will be "Heroic Action 5 News Team Tracks Down Dangerous Rogue Technomancer."

Either way, though, whether it's pyschotropic code or Resonance ultra-groovy feel-good vibrations man, this would be an excellent explanation as to 1) why the Matrix 2.1 feels "good" to a vet like FastJack and 2) why the shadow community did not lose their collect shit over the Matrix changes.

And using brainwashing techniques to increase corporate control over the Matrix? It just doesn't get any more dystopian than that.

[Angelone]

GOD has been around for awhile, since the first Matrix book I think. I know for a fact they are in Target: Matrix on pg 96 I'll see if I can dig up my older books.

Edit- Yup GOD is in the first Matrix book pg 158.

[Belker]

For what it's worth, "Grid" has been a synonym for the Matrix since 1st edition - it's right there in the character page of the Decker archetype.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

GOD has been around for awhile, since the first Matrix book I think. I know for a fact they are in Target: Matrix on pg 96 I'll see if I can dig up my older books.

Edit- Yup GOD is in the first Matrix book pg 158.

Just as an aside to the (relatively) newer people, 'the first Matrix book' does not mean 'the first book about the Matrix'.  Angelone is meaning the first book specifically called 'Matrix' - which was 'the book about the Matrix' for 3E.  In it, it states that the Grid Overwatch Division was shiny and new in 2061, which it was - 2 years after the Arcology shutdown, so my brain is apparently hitting on most of its pistons.  (Not hitting ON Pistons, but hey ...)  If you're going to play in an earlier timeline, though, don't think that that's cause for you to relax; Lone Star at the time had its corporate-decker-cops patrolling the grids they covered (such as Seattle's) like beat cops, looking for people doing bad things.

I was genuinely not aware that GOD existed prior to SR5. I thought the name "Grid Overwatch Division" sort of came hand-in-hand with the concept of grids as a fictional and mechanical concept.

As Belker says, grids - networks - as a Shadowrun concept go back to Concept One for how the Matrix worked.  When you get down to it, that's how the real Matrix (internet) works - a general 'internet' grid/network, which private networks (corporate and government nets) link up to, etc. etc.  So this is core conceptual computer network stuff.

However, here's my question for you: why spend millions of nuyen, even billions, every year in order to keep a huge bunch of technomancers either happy or on life support, when they can simply embed code they already have (minor 'fuzzy warm feelings' psychotropics and their use in corporate environments have been in the game, thus in the game world, for at least two IC decades) into the core programming for the updated protocols?

Because pyschotropics is still code, and therefore detectable to those with technical knowledge. Which, granted, is a fraction of the population. But I think people forget that the big corps are still corporations; they're still in constant economic war with one another. All it takes is one technically proficient person saying, "Hey, this new public grid set up is laced with brain-washing psychotropic code!" and then that one person putting in an anonymous tip to Horizon. Sure, Horizon can benefit from the Matrix 2.1... but wouldn't it also benefit from headlines that say "MCT, Renraku, et al are Brainwashing You!"

Actually ... it isn't.  Think of it this way: the core Matrix code is equivalent to the TCP/IP protocol code that allows your computer to network with other computers, to open up a browser and link to websites.  Oh, you see the browser, and you can eyeball the code that is being fed to it - but what you are at best only subconsciously aware of is the code that enables all that, i.e. the TCP/IP networking code.  Yes, you can dive into your Windows/DOS/UNIX/LINUX/Apple/whatever software you're using and find the files that are doing it - but unless you really, really specifically go looking for them, and have such a thorough knowledge of them that you could write them from scratch yourself (hint - even most highly technical computer people don't/can't) you are not going to spend a bloody nanosecond thinking about whether they're working, how they work, or whatever.  Why not?  Because they're part of the infrastructure.

Who these days thinks of the code running the network hubs, both major and minor, for the internet?  I know I sure don't.  Now, if it got updated so that it made it easier for other, barely-more-adept people to snoop on my activities, follow my keystrokes, intercept my messages, and loot my PayPal account, yeah, I'd want the old code back - or better, updated code put into place.

To boot, this isn't OOO BLACK IC PSYCHOTROPIC DANGEROUS BAD BAD code; this is 'fuzzy warm feel-good' stuff that is even less powerful than the most minor mood-adjusting simsense chip available.  It isn't addicting you; it isn't brainwashing you (so far as we know, naturally).  All that it's doing is to just make you feel comfortable using the new protocols.

And here's the real kicker - it isn't going to have any effect on anyone running anything but Hot Sim - meaning unless all the gates are open, it's Just The Matrix.

Technomancer and Resonance hijinks are all but undetectable, except to other technomancers... and it's not like a technomancer can go to his local Horizon affiliate Action 5 News Team and report it, because the top story will be "Heroic Action 5 News Team Tracks Down Dangerous Rogue Technomancer."

Not really true.  Technomancers can do some things quicker, easier, faster, and/or better than a decker (yay!), and there are things that they can do (e.g. sprites, the Resonance Realms) which deckers simply can't, but at this point there's really nothing they can do that's undetectable - with the notation that like anything else, you do need to know what you're looking at or for.  That said, you'd still need thousands, if not tens of thousands or more, of technomancers doing this 24/7 for it to work.  Like I said, some mild low-level 'feel-good' code that you already have, which affects one in a thousand Matrix users at the most ... ?

Cheap at twice the price.

Either way, though, whether it's pyschotropic code or Resonance ultra-groovy feel-good vibrations man, this would be an excellent explanation as to 1) why the Matrix 2.1 feels "good" to a vet like FastJack and 2) why the shadow community did not lose their collect shit over the Matrix changes.

And using brainwashing techniques to increase corporate control over the Matrix? It just doesn't get any more dystopian than that.

Good explanation for 1.  For 2 ... IMO, the shadow community wasn't going to really ever lose their collective tempers over network protocol upgrades.  The only people affected are the lowest of the low, the ones who could hack only because they could spend money on programs.  We're talking silver-spooners, or playtime-gangbang-hackers, or the samurai who got his hacker friend to slide him a copy of his programs.  For the real hackers/deckers?  I imagine the general reaction was 'finally!!' and 'about frickin' time!!'  The changes return exclusivity to those who really do have the technical know-how - i.e. the actual deckers....

[Bewilderbeast]

To boot, this isn't OOO BLACK IC PSYCHOTROPIC DANGEROUS BAD BAD code; this is 'fuzzy warm feel-good' stuff that is even less powerful than the most minor mood-adjusting simsense chip available.  It isn't addicting you; it isn't brainwashing you (so far as we know, naturally).  All that it's doing is to just make you feel comfortable using the new protocols.

And here's the real kicker - it isn't going to have any effect on anyone running anything but Hot Sim - meaning unless all the gates are open, it's Just The Matrix.

You're right on that, but one thing I'll point out... as of SR5, hot sim is addictive. Even without BTLs and other toys, the experience of hot sim can force your character to roll on the addiction table. Because it just feels good man.

Either way, though, whether it's pyschotropic code or Resonance ultra-groovy feel-good vibrations man, this would be an excellent explanation as to 1) why the Matrix 2.1 feels "good" to a vet like FastJack and 2) why the shadow community did not lose their collect shit over the Matrix changes.

And using brainwashing techniques to increase corporate control over the Matrix? It just doesn't get any more dystopian than that.

Good explanation for 1.  For 2 ... IMO, the shadow community wasn't going to really ever lose their collective tempers over network protocol upgrades.  The only people affected are the lowest of the low, the ones who could hack only because they could spend money on programs.  We're talking silver-spooners, or playtime-gangbang-hackers, or the samurai who got his hacker friend to slide him a copy of his programs.  For the real hackers/deckers?  I imagine the general reaction was 'finally!!' and 'about frickin' time!!'  The changes return exclusivity to those who really do have the technical know-how - i.e. the actual deckers....

Yeah, I don't buy this. It's like saying, (for example), if the corps found a way to increase the background count of the entire fraggin' manasphere, and the Awakened shadow community reacted by saying, "Good! Now only us real mages can sling spells now." No; instead the Awakened would gripe about the corps screwing with the manasphere in the first place. Or if the corps find a way to install the entire wageslave population with military-grade skillwires and datajacks, and the street samurais of the world collectively said, "Good! Now only us real razor boys can enter a corp facility without getting perforated with hot lead."

I don't know, maybe in my head the downtrodden underclass of Shadowrun has a much higher urge toward independence and neo-anarchism. But this is the corps exerting greater control over the Matrix, plain and simple. I feel like that wouldn't sit well with a majority of the shadow population (though, granted, the regular population wouldn't care much at all).

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Actually, as of SR4 hot sim is addictive - which, IMO, is expletive stupid.  Hot sim isn't supposed to be BTL; it's supposed to be full-sensorium.  I have no doubt that there ARE deckers who crank their deck's sense links to 11, but those are the bright shiny Pink Mohawk blazing stars - shine for a month or a year, and then crash and vanish.  Hot sim is supposed to put you fully into the experience, not screw you over ...

... anyhow.

I think, Bewilderbeast, that you're looking at the way the Matrix works from the POV of SR4 as a starting point, instead of the entire background.  To parallel SR4's Matrix experience with, for example, your Awakened one?  It'd be like mundanes would have been able to purchase Injekt-A-Spell infusions that allowed them to cast an entire category of spells at a designated Force for a month or two.  Mages (players and NPCs) would have been wandering around going 'I spent six years at MIT&M busting my brains to do this work, while Jimmy No just has to pay $15,000 and can chuck a Force 10 Manaball??  WTF, man?!?'  The advance to SR5's Matrix 2.1 would be equivalent to all those Injekt-A-Spell products getting taken off the market because they caused cancer.  Everyone who relied on them is whining, while the mages - who put time and effort (i.e. build points and karma) into learning how to actually do it - are saying, "It's about fraggin' time!!"

In the metagame aspect, this comes because SR4 screwed deckers/hackers over, and made success a matter of purchasing power instead of skill.  It makes the Matrix the domain of the decker again, instead of a floozie-free-for-all.

[Ishmell]

The truth

What he said.

[Furious Trope]

Darke 2.0?

When was the last time ole Darke showed up, anyway? Last I remember was in Threats or Threats 2 in SR3.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Darke 2.0?

When was the last time ole Darke showed up, anyway? Last I remember was in Threats or Threats 2 in SR3.

Sourcebook-wise, he's only ever been in Threats, but I he popped up in fiction in the Ryan Mercury / Dunkelzahn's death trilogy, and then in the Harlequin's Back adventure.  Presuming the PCs succeed in the latter, he's pretty much negated, and I think it's more-or-less presumed that the Big AZT Boogieman (generally believed to be a Great Feathered Serpent that's been Corrupted by Verjigorm) sends him to sleep with the fishies.  Or, you know, has him for lunch.