[martinchaen]

Simply to commiserate: I play with a clinical neuropsychologist and there's no way he'd by the, "it's the same part of the brain" rationale and he'd eat up 45 minutes of table time explaining it to me.  I've houseruled that fully jumped-in riggers (which is a control rig thing, not a RCC thing) use the same attribute equivalencies as astral stuff (p. 314).

That's a cool houserule, Kincaid, I'll steal that for my table!

[JackVII]

Active sensor targeting is pretty awesome, IMO, if you have the time to set-it up. A good roll is like having burst fire without the recoil.

[martinchaen]

Woah, no kidding! That's an AWESOME ability... I'll EASILY take a Simple Action to get to roll 16 dice and apply any hits (5.33 mathematical average) as a negative dice pool modifier to their dodge and the -3 to my attack pool of (up to 23); if they are sneaking, so be it.

Then either fire immediately or take another Simple Action to Take Aim to reduce range penalties or increase accuracy and add a dice back (the latter seems like a better deal with high dice pools).

[JackVII]

I think it would 18 dice right? (EW (6) + Intuition (6) + Hot-Sim (2) + CR (3) + "Disputed" Additional CR Bonus (1) = 18 Sensor Test?

The problem with Aaron's rulings is cherry-picking the ones that actually seem right without making it appear that you're only grabbing interpretations that benefit you, it's tough to draw the line about what is appropriate and what isn't. For instance, he also ruled that Control Rigs don't come with a Hot-Sim mod as standard (which also makes little sense to me as I'm not sure why they would be restricted gear).

I'm glad we're getting this worked out now though, better to do so before it actually becomes an issue.

ETA: Aaron's answers aren't always the clearest either, although I think he does this intentionally when people ask him compound questions. I just noticed this post from Michael Chandra that I must have missed earlier which made me laugh.

[JackVII]

Then either fire immediately...

I've fought about this one with folks before, but I think they're correct when they say that any use of the Gunnery skill (even a jumped in drone) is going to be a Complex Action. I don't like it, but it seems to be the case (it also helps to balance against the super initiatives of independently operating drones). So, Sensor Lock + Take Aim in one IP, then take the shot in IP 2 with significant bonuses. Also, there's no reason that a drone can't try to do a sensor lock or take aim outside of combat, IMO.

[Bewilderbeast]

Just getting the perfunctory negotiations out of the way; I'm personally ready to get to the action but I have to fulfill my face duties.

4 hits on Negotiation, no glitch: http://orokos.com/roll/185418

Not a great roll but my Edge is sparse so we'll let it stand.

Johnny is a face, but a coarse, ganger face type guy. He's not going to argue about the meaning of "shall" on a contract. He really shines in low-class situations and Intimidation in particular. I really like playing this guy.

[Triskavanski]

John, being a guy in many trades, assists Juju with some flowery words Negoation Assistance: 6d6t5 1

Giving +1 dice +1 limit for the teamwork test, I do believe. Unfortunately, since the guy counts as a 'ninja' for John, being the bit of a racist he is, John suffers I believe a -2 to his dice pool. So instead of 8, it was 6. Still a single hit though ^^

[JackVII]

If we can do a teamwork test here (I could see it, with everyone dog-piling on whatever Johnny says to the Johnson), Baron Mojo's assistance:

Negotiations Teamwork (Assist) Negotiation (4) + Charisma (2) - Prejudice (2): 4d6t5 2

+1 Limit/+2 Dice

[martinchaen]

I think it would 18 dice right? (EW (6) + Intuition (6) + Hot-Sim (2) + CR (3) + "Disputed" Additional CR Bonus (1) = 18 Sensor Test?

You are correct. For some reason I'd used Logic 7 for the EWAR test, which is incorrect, thank you for catching that.

The problem with Aaron's rulings is cherry-picking the ones that actually seem right without making it appear that you're only grabbing interpretations that benefit you, it's tough to draw the line about what is appropriate and what isn't. For instance, he also ruled that Control Rigs don't come with a Hot-Sim mod as standard (which also makes little sense to me as I'm not sure why they would be restricted gear).

Gah, I hadn't seen that one! Shame on me for assuming the RCC comes with a hot-sim module, I guess; oh well, guess what I'm buying with my starting cash...

I'm glad we're getting this worked out now though, better to do so before it actually becomes an issue.

ETA: Aaron's answers aren't always the clearest either, although I think he does this intentionally when people ask him compound questions. I just noticed this post from Michael Chandra that I must have missed earlier which made me laugh.

Agreed; what does ETA, mean, by the way? I've seen it used on the forum before, but couldn't find any reference to that abbreviation beyond Estimated Time of Arrival, which I already knew.

And yes, Aaron definitely has a bit of a tongue-in-cheeck answering style at times. Also, definitely not trying to cherry pick; first time playing a rigger, so this is very educational. Thanks for chiming in!

Then either fire immediately...

I've fought about this one with folks before, but I think they're correct when they say that any use of the Gunnery skill (even a jumped in drone) is going to be a Complex Action. I don't like it, but it seems to be the case (it also helps to balance against the super initiatives of independently operating drones). So, Sensor Lock + Take Aim in one IP, then take the shot in IP 2 with significant bonuses. Also, there's no reason that a drone can't try to do a sensor lock or take aim outside of combat, IMO.

Rereading it, I agree. I think that was my initial thinking with using two Take Aim actions instead of just one; makes perfect sense to me, I probably just got excited of the Sensor Targeting section, forgetting that Gunnery does indeed seem like it always requires a Complex Action (which is a little ironic, if you ask me, given that everything a Rigger does, at least according to Aaron, seems to rely on the motor cortex anyway; why should pulling the trigger be any different, but oh well).

I also agree on being able to "set up" an attack ahead of time; a rigger shines with a good decker who can pinpoint target through walls for him; four drones with rifles = four potentially dead people and/or four very destroyed commlinks

Also also, I've PMed Celtibero so he doesn't need to trawl through this thread to answer the previous rigger related questions (man, Riggers got absolutely SHAFTED in SR5; so much confusion about their rules)

Also also also, Moto is going to stay the HELL out of teamworking negotiations, with his massive dice pool of 0 :p

[Triskavanski]

Some rulings also don't make sense, like how magic arrows need to do 1 point of physical damage to trigger the spell. Which would mean that all touch preparations would need to do 1 point of physical damage to trigger the spell.

[JackVII]

ETA = Edited to Add

In case you want to specify what you edited.

Personally, I love the idea of spotter drones. I think you should be able to use the Fly-Spy inside the building to at least reduce the Blind Fire penalties considerably. Also, WRT to the Hot-Sim module, I believe the issue is with the Control Rig rather than the Rigger Command Console I personally like to think that a Control Rig (which comes with a sim-module) is automatically hot-sim enabled to bring it inline with a cyberdeck WRT legality. TBH, the rigger rules are really poorly written and don't blend together very well. There are a lot of references to things that don't seem to exist (Control Tests, etc) and other things that seem to mirror other rules, but then (probably) misprint them. That additional +1 bonus for jumping in in Hot-Sim is basically the Hot-Sim rules with a different positive modifier listed (thus creating the additive effect).

[martinchaen]

Agreed. We'll see what Celtibero says; I'm good either way.

And thanks for the reference, I was scratching my noggin' trying to figure that one out.

I don't mind the -6 blindfire modifier, to be honest; to me, it represents the difficulty of firing at something you can see directly; if Celtibero lets me use my spotter drones to reduce that penalty somehow, awesome; if not, it's all good

But yeah, unless Celtibero is OK with retconning a hot-sim module onto my RCC or VCR, I'm calling Valkyrie for a hot-sim module immediately... I figure I'll use Run & Guns modifcation rules for guns, translated for electronics. Details to come, possibly.

[JackVII]

@Celtibero: If you want any input, I'd personally just assume that a control rig comes standard as hot-sim capable. While the rules don't specifically say it comes with it, they imply that using a control rig allows Cold- and Hot-Sim by default (particularly given that neither the control rig nor RCC listings come with the commlink Hot-sim modification notation).

[Celtibero]

Ok.... from assensing feast to this this is (besides setting, flavour, blablabla) i love shadowrun tbh... you guys will have to give me time to chew on all of that

so... i'll probably put an update post today, just let me work on the Neverland char, crunch some numbers (RL imposing....), splintered stare update followed by looking at all those figures and rulings....

[martinchaen]

Cool as cool, Celtibero. The drone rulings aren't important right now (I hope; unless someone decides to start a fight with the ninj... ehem... Mr. Johnson ).

Moto will performs some Matrix Searches over the next couple of minutes/hours, looking for more than just general information (i.e. Threshold 3, Limited Interest or Not Publicized, if applicable)
Matrix Search w/Browse [6]: "Oxycode" "Oxycode, Redmond Barrens" "Oxycode street alias": 12d6t5 6

Matrix Search w/Browse [6]: "Novelty Hills Sleep & Eat" "Novelty Hills Sleep & Eat directions": 12d6t5 6

He'll then try to research Mr. Johnson, probably while on the way to Novelty Hills unless the meeting drags out;
Matrix Search w/Browse [6]: [image of Mr. Johnson]: 12d6t5 8
Holy hell, the dice gods are kind today; first two rolls with 6 hits, then 8 hits on 12 dice? Whaaaaaat? Shame I'm limited to 6 hits.
Same as above, looking for information of limited interest or that might not have been publicized, so Threshold 3.

Since all searches are done with a Browse program, the base time to search is halved from 30 to 15 minutes.  Additional hits beyond the threshold of 3 is used to reduce the time spent searching the Matrix. With 3 net hits on all tests, that means 5 minutes spent on each topic.

Oh, and one more thing regarding dice rolls; since we're making rolls potentially without knowing if we need to modify our pool, I'm OK with you just subtracting dice results as appropriate from the end of the rolls. So, for instance, if I rolled the following 20 dice (whoops, rolled d8 but oh well, example is still good):
Dice Pool Modifier Example: 20d6t8 5
But was only supposed to roll 16 dice, you could just disregard the last four dice on my roll, changing the result to 4 hits instead of 5. Sound fair?