[JackVII]

Fair point. I guess one option would be to hand over Ownership of devices, then, takes about a minute per device if anyone's interested, and would allow for substantially higher defense pools. Nothing stops an owner from inviting three marks on a device so that others can use said device, after all...

IC, I'm pretty sure none of us would trust the others yet to hand over ownership of our gear.

Still, even if Celtibero only went with subbing Matrix Attributes, it would be a big boost.

[martinchaen]

Seeing as how deckers are supposed to be more involved in the team, I would allow a slaved device to use both the Master devices' Mental and Matrix attributes; anything else is just silly as I see it, and penalizes deckers for no good reason. Going by the fluff (a less intuitive user is likely to mess up the security protocols or whatever), it should be possible to my mind for a Matrix specialist to improve the defense of a device by tweaking it; this would be represented in game mechanics term by allowing both attributes of the Master to apply.

Of course, there's that whole bullshit about a Persona not being allowed to be a Master, and a device ceasing to be a device when it's used to connect to the Matrix as a Persona, which means neither Vandarl's or my character has any useful option for Master devices, as he's (presumably) using his deck to form his persona, and I'm using my RCC to form my persona...

Matrix and rigger rules needs some overhaul for sure. Whelp, looks like we need some more input, Celtibero.

1. Can a device be part of a PAN without needing to be owned by the Master?
2. When a device is part of a PAN, can it use the Mental and Matrix attributes of the Master (even if the Master is not the same owner as the slave), or just the Matrix attributes?

Cheers

[EDIT]
By the way, guys, the first attached picture is how the Arsenal book shows the Roadmaster.
The second is how I see it

It's a Gurkha LAPV, which was featured in one of the Fast and Furious movies; an actual, roadgoing armored truck, used for both civilian and police use (with various options, like a gun turret, not available to civilians (at least not in the US; in the Middle East, you can get a .50 cal machine gun mounted)). The gun turret mount on the civvie version is an internally retractable top hatch (think something like a sun roof), which Moto would use to launch and land his drones through.

[JackVII]

Seeing as how deckers are supposed to be more involved in the team, I would allow a slaved device to use both the Master devices' Mental and Matrix attributes; anything else is just silly as I see it, and penalizes deckers for no good reason.

They can still provide a valuable service, particularly with a cyberdeck which boosts Running Silent defenses by providing a Sleaze rating.

Going by the fluff (a less intuitive user is likely to mess up the security protocols or whatever), it should be possible to my mind for a Matrix specialist to improve the defense of a device by tweaking it; this would be represented in game mechanics term by allowing both attributes of the Master to apply.

The problem is that the fluff doesn't match the mechanics. You don't have to have ANY capability with technology the way the rules are currently written since defense isn't based on a Skill, but an Attribute. If a hacker with an Intuition of 4 and a back-to-nature tribesman with an Intuition of 5 are both given the same commlink, for some reason the tribesman has better dice to defend against a Hack on the Fly attempt than the decker.

I would have preferred to see Matrix Defense work somewhat similarly to counterspelling. Keep the basic Owner Mental Attribute + Device/Master Matrix Attribute, and then supplement that roll with either a new skill or Cybercombat/Hack on the Fly to defend.

Of course, there's that whole bullshit about a Persona not being allowed to be a Master, and a device ceasing to be a device when it's used to connect to the Matrix as a Persona, which means neither Vandarl's or my character has any useful option for Master devices, as he's (presumably) using his deck to form his persona, and I'm using my RCC to form my persona..

Yeah, this is a terrible rule with all kind of stupid consequences. I don't really understand why the Persona has to replace the Device icon. If the device icon just stayed where it was while a persona was formed, it would pretty much solve all of the stupid shit that results from the rule.

[martinchaen]

JackVII
Excellent point; the Sleaze attribute is a huge addition to Running Silent. Too bad I can't slave my RCC to your deck and gain that benefit for all my slaved drones.

Agreed on the matrix "counterspelling"; I think EWAR would be a good skill for that, personally, or maybe just Computers (as it would encourage more people to take it, which would reflect the basic competency runners have with computers).

And yep, the Persona =/= device thing is just annoying. Oh well, ce l'est vie!

All right, some basic info on the armored vehicle:
The Roadmaster (last picture above, but with dark, blood red racing stripes over the whole vehicle from front lip to rear fender) has two rows of bench seats in the back, one on each side, with room for four non-troll sized metahumans per bench, and two fairly obvious charging cradles up near the drivers cabin (which is locked externally with no access internally, by the way ) for the Roto-Drones. In one of the cradles rests a Roto-Drone with a mounted Ares Alpha with underslung grenade launcher, and if any character looks for them they'll also spot two much smaller cradles up near the roof of the vehicle where the Fly-Spys will be charging.

Once everyone is seated, Moto will check the surrounding area for people and cars and wait until the street is clear, then throw the big armored truck into reverse and pull a high-speed J-Turn, tires screeching like a banshee.

Celtibero; I gauge this to be a base Threshold 3 test (hairpin turn of more than 130 degrees) with either a +1 Threshold modifier for the Light terrain (main street thoroughfares) or +2 for Restricted terrain (side streets), and with a -3 to the Threshold for my Rating 3 Control Rig.

My Ares Roadmaster has a base Handling attribute of 3, modified by +2 for Piloting in VR, and a further +3 for the Control Rig, total of 8. The crazy part is, the +3 for the Control rig applies to not just Handling, but Speed (unfortunately not Acceleration, though) and Sensor tests as well; with a base speed of 3 + 3 for the Control Rig, that means I can, by the rules, push what is essentially a small tank up to around 400km/h... That seems more than just a LITTLE off to me, so I'm hereby officially stating that I have no intention of trying anything like that...

Anyway, Pilot Groundcraft test to pull of the J-Turn to hopefully scare some sense or at least show Lucky Dog that "this ain't no boat, chummer!":
Pilot Groundcraft [8]: Performing a reverse J-Turn with Ares Roadmaster: 16d6t5 7

Heh, I think it's safe to say that that is a success...

[Vandarl]

To answer the questions about matrix defense, my deck stats are 5,4,4,2.. In my default walking around configuration the 5 is on firewall, the 4's are on sleeze and data processing, and the 2 is on attack. With program boost included, that puts firewall at 6. So 6 + 5 for my intuition for defense. My deck is normally running silent, and my commlink is normally not, but as we go active that may change. I tend to run matrix perception both to look for things running silent, and for marks on my decvices when not actively involved in anything else.

I have no problem with slaving for defense, but the only person that knows me well is Moto, the rest may not feel comfortable doing that yet. As mentioned, if Moto wants me to do so, I can control a drone or rigged vehicle, but not as well as he can by quite a bit.

[JackVII]

I would suggest that a J-Turn is way easier than a (3) Threshold. I imagine we've been to several of the same driving schools. I think a J-Turn is way easier to make than a high speed hairpin (and a bootleg even easier). It's all relative though since your Control Rig pretty much eliminates most of it and your roll was ridiculous.

One fix I have seen for the "Control Rig Speed Problem" is to allow the CR to boost the LIMIT rather than the actual value. There's a post somewhere about how you could theoretically incinerate the Earth's atmosphere with an R3 Control Rig and the fastest bike in the book (LOL).

[martinchaen]

I know, I read that post, JackVII; it was fantastically well written. And yes, a J-Turn might be easier than 3, I just took kind of a Worst Case Scenario (TM) and my roll obliterated even that, so it's all good

Like I said, gentlemans agreement as far as I'm concerned with regards to speed. Speed 3 is a running speed of a mere 48km/h, and that seems low even for an armored vehicle; the Ghurka LAPV which I've pictured above as what I see the Roadmaster as weighs over 8 tonnes and still manages a top speed of 150km/h (and it "only" has a 6.7L turbodiesel V8 producing around 400hp; I'm betting electromotors, high capacity batteries, and/or advances in fuel efficiency and engine manufacturing would be able to improve upon this).

Seeing as how the Acceleration of the Roadmaster is only 1 (as it should be, for a vehicle that size), it would take me 6 full combat turns of nothing but acceleration (equivalent of 18 seconds) to reach top speed; should it be 400mph? Most certainly not. Will I try to claim that it can go that fast? Absolutely not...

Vandarl
Cool, Moto will keep all his gear to himself, seeing as he would know that your Firewall is inferior to his own; he might be persuaded to have you pilot a Fly-Spy to begin with, see if you manage to keep it safe before allowing you a hand at a Roto-Drone (they're expensive!); I'll certainly keep that in mind.

[Vandarl]

I admit, I can't imagine a situation where he would drop his firewall to lower than a 4 setting, but it is a potential. A big part of the difference between Moto and Count Zorro, is if they do manage to get a mark against my defense, I can actually work at countering. Moto counts on being slightly harder to mark.
Erase Mark = Computer + Logic Vs.  Willpower + Firewall [Attack]

[JackVII]

@Vandarl: Basically, Baron Mojo isn't down yet for slaving his device to anyone, but he would be more than willing to let you MARK it if you want to be able to keep tabs on it. Mojo has pretty much no tech, so the main issue with his commlink is the potential for it to be Snooped or Traced, which would require MARKs. In other words, regular Matrix Perception checks are probably the most beneficial overwatch for my mage.

NB: Quick glance through our character sheets revealed this important point: DON'T GET INJURED! We don't have a single rank of First Aid between the five of us, from what I can tell. LOL

[Bewilderbeast]

I'm about to head to work, so I won't be able to post for about nine hours or so, but feel free to plan and stuff without me. But that's pretty much Johnny's plan; try to meet Oxycode for "business" and either subtly steal the commlink from him or just straight up jump/intimidate it out of him.

To our GM: I assume the 1 hit on the Drug Dealers knowledge check wasn't enough for Johnny to know/know of Oxycode personally. I'd be interested to know if Adam Smits knows the guy, but since Adam is only a Loyalty 1 contact he might be too busy playing video games to bother responding to Johnny.

EDIT: Oh, also, for the record, Johnny totally got his machine pistol back from the bouncer. He wouldn't have just walked off with it, after all.

[Vandarl]

JackVII
No problem, the basic setup I am envisioning is to have people invite a mark on their gear so that I can keep track of it while it is running silent, and then doing matrix perception sweeps looking to see if marks other than mine appear on the items. At that point I can either recommend a quick reboot, or work at removing the marks and finding the bad guy. As I understand the matrix rules that should be the easiest/simplest way to keep an eye on peoples gear.

[JackVII]

-Exactly what I envisioned-

That's perfect. Mojo does have a single rank in Computer, so he will know how to invite a MARK if Zorro wants to suggest the crew do so.

[Celtibero]

1. Can a device be part of a PAN without needing to be owned by the Master?
2. When a device is part of a PAN, can it use the Mental and Matrix attributes of the Master (even if the Master is not the same owner as the slave), or just the Matrix attributes?[/b]

1. Ofc, if people trust each other to do that ofc
2. no, just the matrix attribute. I personally see it as people messing around with their equipment (when they should stay quiet), the layman leaving backdoors open (no matter how good the firewall), the sort of mishaps we know that happen when you put the general public playing with PC's

[martinchaen]

Any results on the Johnson, Celtibero? I got 6 hits each on Oxycode, the hotel, and Mr. Johnson.

[Bewilderbeast]

@Martin: Not sure if you posted before or after our GM, but it seems or Johnson is with a syndicate. Celtibero mentioned it in his last post.

Also, some late assensing rolls, just for kicks and because assensing is cool:
3 hits on the Cap'n: http://orokos.com/roll/187764
1 hit on the Count: http://orokos.com/roll/187765

To ease the burden on the GM, I'm pretty sure we can resolve these rolls ourselves. With one 1 hit on the Count, Johnny is assured that our hacker is mundane and healthy, and also reads his current emotional state. With 3 hits, Johnny gets the Captain's current emotional state, the fact that he's Awakened, and also now knows that his Magic rating is lower than his own (if I recall correctly the Captain is a Magic 2 Adept, right?)