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Could you start with modified scum rules then build up to normal?

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Senko

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« on: <04-18-14/1619:46> »
I'm considering starting a group off with modified scum rules (street level resource reduction with picks of c/c, d/d and e or b, c, d/d, e IF the b is used to take metavariant troll. I considered allowing it for any metavariant and only that but I don't want them too powerful and this way practically everyone would take b as their metavariant so i only allow it for troll so people could play as any race.) and then slowly building them up to regular runs/levels. In part because I have an idea that would work with that, inoartso I can learn the rules as well.

What I'm wondering could that work starting off with street scum and building them up?
« Last Edit: <04-18-14/1624:49> by Senko »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <04-18-14/1624:04> »
It's going to take a long while, you're basically talking about something that's perhaps a 300-karma gap (including nuyen), if the average run gives you 8k after expenses+lifestyle and 6 karma, that's ~10 karma, so 20~40 runs or so before the characters are now regulars.
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Senko

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« Reply #2 on: <04-18-14/1626:53> »
Giving me plenty of time to learn the rules but yes that is a long time and I might given them special extra rewards at times to speed it up. Still time aside from a mechanics perspective there's no reason this shouldnt work right?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <04-18-14/1629:09> »
Not at all. Of course what you could do instead, is after a while start chargen again with normal characters, a timejump to their 'grown-up' characters.
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Tenlaar

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« Reply #4 on: <04-18-14/1639:05> »
It seems like you could start off as basically playing through the history of the real characters.  Do one small storyline, jump ahead six months and give each character 50 karma and X nuyen to spend to represent their gains in that time period.  Do a second storyline, another 6 month jump.  That way not only does it make things simpler at first, but the players can get more of a feel of "growing" their character instead of starting at chargen again, which will likely have some wanting to change this or that aspect.
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Senko

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« Reply #5 on: <04-18-14/1744:16> »
Hmmmm interesting idea.

Senko

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« Reply #6 on: <04-19-14/2224:09> »
Bumping to indicate a new question hope that's okay.

If I were to use your time jump idea what do you think would be a better approach out of these two?

Approach A which involves awarding them an average amount of karma/money after each jump and can be split up however seems appropriate I'd say only a few runs with increasing values of rewards as they find their feet but smaller more even breaks could work as well see below . . .

Sample 1 Even Split.
Introductory Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Second Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Third Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Fourth Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Fifth Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Sixth Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Commence Regular storyline.

Sample 2 Chunk Jumps.
Introductory Run.
Time Jump 6 months: 56 Karma + 30,700 Nuyen.
Second Run
Time Jump 1 year: 112 Karma + 61,400 Nuyen.
Third Run.
Time Jump 1.5 years: 168 Karma + 92,100 Nuyen.

Approach B is more tailored towards their specific purchasing wherein I give them a value of the difference between what a regular runner gets and what they got on the reduced values depending on how long the time jumps are, its more work for me but I prefer it. Here I'll use the 6/12/18 month jumps from sample b above. For example say they took Magic and Skills as C they'd say which of the two was more important e.g. skills are C1 and Magic is C2 so if they were starting off normally it would be A and B respectively. Skills A gives 46/10 while skills C gives 28/2 a difference of 18/8 a 6th of which is 3/1 so they gain 3 individual skills and 1 skill group they can pick (groups don't need to match up here all skills in it raise by 1 representing their improving them over that period) same with the other skills. Then after the 2nd run they time jump forward a year and 1/3 of the remainder, after the 3rd run jump forward another year and a half to the campaign start point gaining the remaining difference.

Approach B
Introductory Run
Time Jump 6 months: 1/6th the difference rounded down.
Second Run
Time Jump 1 year: 1/3rd the difference rounded down.
Third Run.
Time Jump 1.5 years: The remaining difference between their reduced starting values and normal ones.

So with this they'd start the regular campaign just slightly stronger than a regular character because they'd have the normal starting values + the small amount they got (plus loot) from the 3 runs they did.

Tenlaar

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« Reply #7 on: <04-20-14/0110:37> »
I've actually been thinking about this.  I think that your basic idea is good and close to how I would do it, but not quite.  See what you think of this method.

You could have them pick their priorities as normal with the basic 25 karma chargen, and get their full up to 25 karma worth of negative and positive qualities (as these are an innate part of the character).  They can assign their full stats/SAPs, including magic/resonance, because it's another innate part of the character.  I would then give them half of their skill points, left over karma (the 25 + any from NQs), and nuyen to spend at the start.  Make the max a skill can be at the start 3, with the max going up to 4 after the first run, 5 after the second, 6 after the third.  For mages/adepts, do the same for spells/PPs.  Half at the start, others given after runs.

This way you end up with street levelish skills/gear on slightly tougher than street level characters without having to worry about normalizing their stats as you work up to normal starting strength.  You can also easily divide their remaining skill points, karma, and nuyen into thirds so that going into the fourth run they'll be where they would be with the full 25 karma chargen.
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Senko

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« Reply #8 on: <04-21-14/0301:20> »
Thing is even if those things are a basic part of your character you can buy/upgrade/remove components as you go along e.g. a mage works out and goes from 2 str to 3. Could work if its what you want to do though, having thought about it I think I'm going to go with the following . . .

Create a normal runner level character then recreate it with the modified rule sets that is you can drop your con from 3 to 1 but you can't take etiquitte instead. Qualities/gear/etc that is more expensive than allowed e.g. a high grade comlink is replaced for the purpose of the runs with a cheaper one. You then take your street level scum into the first run (basic straightforward one with a bit of combat and some optional hacking). Then a time jump forward 6 months and you get 1/4 of the difference in attributes/skills/nuyen to buy up to your original character e.g. you have 3 skill points and put 2 in con and 1 in blades again you can't take anything you didn't have originally but you can upgrade past the street levle limits e.g. replacing your used basic comlink with the new more expensive one, adding some fake id's etc up to your  new limits. At this point you can also take those more expensive drawbacks/perks you couldn't before because they took your cost over 13. Then you'll have a simpler run or two i.e. forces toned down a bit with lower skills but normal combat/hacking etc. Then  you jump forward a year get half the original difference to buy up and again have a run or two although here your going up against regular oppsition. A final time jump forward a year and a half at which point all the remaining points are given taking you to a normal level runner and then you get a bit stronger as you can assign/spend what you earn in the 3-6 runs down learning your trade.

Tenlaar

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« Reply #9 on: <04-21-14/0417:53> »
No reason I can see why that wouldn't work, it just seems like you're creating a lot more work for yourself than is really necessary (with the fully recreating the characters and having to figure all the differences between the priorities for each one) just to have a few easier runs for everybody to get a handle on the things.
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Senko

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« Reply #10 on: <04-21-14/1022:26> »
Honestly I want a game where they start off scum (details below for those who care) and slowly work their way up. The thing is it would take a very long time to do that properly so this is a sort of compromise a few runs for their backstory as they work their way up and everyone can get a handle on the rules then the regular game from normal levels.

Basic idea is a bunch of scum no job, no future, no sin, no hope receive a message "Are you tired of your life, want something new? Something better? Something you could never hope to achieve in the world as it stands no matter how hard you try? Then come to XXXXXX at XX:XX.". Most of them ignore it but a few (the pc's) are still hopeful enough, or desperate and go to the meeting in a large office tower that's empty of anyone else. A bunraku takes them up to the 55th floor and sets up a computer. On the other side is a Japanese man who tells them that Japan is currently a place of opportunity and advantage and this is their lucky day because the company he works for has a unique offer to make, contracts are uploaded to their comlinks. They will be given contacts, travel and opportunity to prove themselves (raise enough money to purchase the medium lifestyle or higher permanently, 500k nuyen). Should they succeed they will receive a corporate SIN, office and work directly for the company. Fail (as defined by being prominently identified, failing to raise the money, generating enough problems that later identification will embarass the company etc etc . . . probably a hand waved 12-16 lines of failure clauses) and they'll still retain all they've earnt they just wont receive the corporate SIN and office work (which is still the same work just jobs where they have less need of deniability e.g. surveiling a prominent official, protecting corporate facilities, legtimate jobs such as investigating an artifiact found by the company.). Once they accept and sign it they receive a fake sin (rating 3), passport and ticket to Japan (flight non-negotiable as if they miss it the security forces will almost certainly arrest them for using a fake sin, they weren't bribed in other words), a booking resrvation for 1 week at a coffin hotel and a name, address and time to meet a fixer who will handle their jobs. Obviously failure to comply with any of these requirements counts as forfeiture on the contract.

Like I said if I thought I could raise them up to normal levels fast enough I'd not be time skipping at all. I might do more runs at each level depending on how it goes too.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: <04-21-14/1502:39> »
I'd avoid giving them a chunk after every run, it might be better to have a set of a few runs with a single combined story, then give them a bigger chunk and time-jump a while. Gives more foothold for the story,

Think of tv-shows, the big storyline stuff in there pops up in a few episodes near the end of the season (and often mid-season as well). You'd basically be cutting out the filler, while still having more than a single run to build in a story and get them used to their characters. It has the added benefit of them having a better idea of what they think their characters lack before doing another timejump and advancement.
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Senko

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« Reply #12 on: <04-22-14/0056:04> »
Why I'm thinking of multiple runs for the later ones. The first one is going to be just one as an introduction kind of thing like I said.