[OneofSorrow]

Friend and I were debating and wondering is it possible to wear a ballistic mask and a helmet at the same time.  I've quoted him that alot of military and paramilitary people can wear them at the same time but wanted to get the opinion of people on the forum. 

[gmoney999]

Good question.

I've never seen anyone in the military wear a ballistic mask and helmet at the same time.  Actually I have never seen anyone wear a ballistic mask unless you count door gunners, but that doesn't offer much protection.  Initially I would be inclined to say no.

However after thinking about it, I would say sure.   I mean the reason people don't wear ballistic masks is because they obscure vision, a problem which you think could be solved by technology.  Your +armor is limited by strength, so I wouldn't really care.

[OneofSorrow]

Well what I and my partner in crime were thinking was make it so that the helmet and the ballistic mask connect to one another so that they lock into place. 

[gmoney999]

I mean from a realism perspective, it wouldn't happen in real life.  But like I said, by the 2070s  I could see them figuring it out.

I don't think its a issue of balance because +armor is tied to strength and I don't have any problem with rewarding someone with high strength. 

[SlowDeck]

http://www.interamer.com/ballisticfacemaskhalf.aspx

Ballistic face masks that can be worn with helmets already exist. So, I don't see why combining them in Shadowrun would be a problem.

[firebug]

Well what I and my partner in crime were thinking was make it so that the helmet and the ballistic mask connect to one another so that they lock into place.

If it's for cool factor or flavor reasons, you could just have a full helmet that looked however you want.

Technically speaking I'm pretty sure the helmets are intended to be full-head helmets, so you couldn't wear one with a mask, but since flavor-wise they can look like anything and balance-wise you won't lose anything if you just get some SecureTech PPP and make up the difference.

[RHat]

I mean from a realism perspective, it wouldn't happen in real life.

Fact of the matter is that it does; some ballistic masks are designed for this, even.

[Kincaid]

Both a SWAT helmet and a fully sealed helmet are +3 armor and 6 or 8 capacity, so from a balance perspective, having them stack to +4 armor/14 capacity is probably too strong.  The picture of the Riot Gear helmet makes it pretty clear that it also covers the face.

[RHat]

Both a SWAT helmet and a fully sealed helmet are +3 armor and 6 or 8 capacity, so from a balance perspective, having them stack to +4 armor/14 capacity is probably too strong.  The picture of the Riot Gear helmet makes it pretty clear that it also covers the face.

It's not just a matter of where it covers, though, but of what it covers it with.  And requiring two pieces of gear and an extra point of Strength does limit this some, so some extra benefit isn't a bad thing.

[martinchaen]

I'd disallow it on the grounds that a Full Helmet is arguably more protective (as in, can take a chemical seal), so stacking two +2 headware items is a no-go for me due to item balance reasons.

[RHat]

I'd disallow it on the grounds that a Full Helmet is arguably more protective (as in, can take a chemical seal), so stacking two +2 headware items is a no-go for me due to item balance reasons.

Of course, the fact that it takes a chemical seal helps with the balance.  And frankly, stacking is probably the only thing that would keep the Ballistic Mask from just out and out replacing the standard helmet - they're basically identical, but the mask keeps people from seeing you face.

[martinchaen]

Yep; cost effectiveness of a Ballistic Mask + regular Helmet (non-Full version) is just too good.

Cannot take Chemical Seal:
Ballistic Mask (+2 AV, 8 Capacity, Avail 6, 150¥)
Urban Explorer Helmet (+2 AV, 6 Capacity, Avail -, 100¥); regular helmet is Avail 2 for some reason

Can take Chemical Seal:
Full Helmet (from core; +3 AV, 6 Capacity, Avail -, 500¥); availability is weird, maybe it has to be bought with the suit?
Hardned Mil-Spec Battle Helmet (from R&G; +3 AV, Capacity 8, Avail 8F, 10,000¥)

Allowing the helmet to stack with the ballistic mask makes it too good of a combo for a measly 250¥; a whopping 14 Capacity with low avail and low price for +4 AV is hardly game breaking, but I think it does mess up the balance of the Full Helmet, which at that point only has the Chemical Seal option (costing 6000¥ for the seal and at least another 2000¥ for the Full Body Armor, I might add) going for it.

[Xenon]

Helmet give +2 armor
Full helmet give +3 armor

Give helmet with face mask +3 armor

[RHat]

Allowing the helmet to stack with the ballistic mask makes it too good of a combo for a measly 250¥; a whopping 14 Capacity with low avail and low price for +4 AV is hardly game breaking, but I think it does mess up the balance of the Full Helmet, which at that point only has the Chemical Seal option (costing 6000¥ for the seal and at least another 2000¥ for the Full Body Armor, I might add) going for it.

Yes, but the chemseal is at the "if you didn't have this, you'd be dead now" level of benefit.

[martinchaen]

RHat
Not really; toxins are rarely that deadly, unless the mooks are throwing around Seven7 as if it was candy...

Besides, it comes with a minimum investment of 8000¥.

And Xenon; you're free to houserule that option, of course.
I prefer to give the users a more polarized choice. At my table, you either take the helmet, the ballistic mask, OR the full helmet (or one of it's mil-spec/security variants); no cherry picking multiple items and gaining all or most benefits.