[tasti man LH]

So World of Darkness:  Hunter is ripping off the TV series Supernatural? 

...actually, one of the first things that came to mind when I was reading through the wiki entry on Hunter was to run a campaign set in the world of Supernatural but with the ruleset of Hunter.

That you'd go through the events of the show, the only difference being that the Winchester family does not exist and the PCs would take the place of them instead.

[Bewilderbeast]

Oh, yeah, no Hunter: The Vigil lists Supernatural in its "suggested reading/viewing" section. It's totally a Supernatural RPG.

I'm not a fan of the show personally but it's pretty much depicting Hunters.

[CanRay]

Muscle cars with smuggling compartments, what isn't to love? 

[SlowDeck]

There aren't enough good theme songs to go along with running over werewolves in an old Chevy Impala.

[Mara]

I am familiar with both NWoD and CWoD. There are things I like about both, things I don't like about both.

Classic Vampire: Politics and backstabbing are the rule of the night. But, ultimately your character does not
     truly have free will. Everything you do is going exactly to some Methuselah or Antediluvians plan. It really
     has never worked well for me as a tabletop game, because the playgroup size is just too small.

NWoD Vampire: Increased the politics, by doing away with the sects. Since the game was made to focus on
       the players, and it has the conflicting loyalties between Clan, Bloodline, and Covenant,  it works better
       on the tabletop. The only mistake I actually think they made was keeping the names Ventrue, Gangrel,
        and Nosferatu. The names carried too much baggage with them.

Classic Werewolf: You are epic heroes of race that is effectively dying. You know the end is coming, and it
        is about how you stand facing your races imminent death. Many people do it as Furry Superheroes or
        Shapeshifting Eco-terrorists, but it can be so much more, and really depends on your GM.

NWoD Werewolf: The spirit world intrudes on the physical world. As a Werewolf, you are the heir of an ancient
       legacy that enforced the limits of the Spirit World. You have a territory, and you defend and protect it from
       threats, both from the physical world and the spirit world. It focuses more on this, keeping the focus on
       a small group, rather then on the Classic Werewolf's focus on the Sept and Caern.

Classic Mage: Reality is shaped by the belief of the people of the world. As a Mage, you know this and can
        reshape reality to work as you need it to. If you go too much against what people believe is possible,
        reality hits you back. There is a war for reality, with one side pushing science and trying to make the
        world a safer, more orderly place, while the other is fighting for survival of their very beliefs.

NWoD Mage: Magic is Humanity's birthright. Magical traditions all have their origins in ancient Atlantis, but
       the world is reshapable to your whim. However, since magic comes from the Supernal Realms, and
       crosses across the Abyss, when you do magic, you are imposing divine reality on the physical world
        and pulling it across the Abyss, creating friction, and something eventually has to break.

In essence, the Classic World of Darkness focuses on huge, over-arching plot events, while NWoD focuses
on smaller scale, sand-box style play, where each table can be different.

[Reaver]

I never thought of it that way Mara. Thank you for the insight!

[Mara]

I never thought of it that way Mara. Thank you for the insight!

It is ultimately the difference between the two that changes things. I love the Classic World of Darkness because
it has this epic story going on. I love the New World of Darkness because I can make everything my own, and, you
know, maybe what was true in one game will be different in the next. Unlike the Classic WoD, there are no absolute
truths. Which makes it good.

[AndyNakamura]

cWoD: There is a secret world, just around the corner from yours, full of mystery, monsters, and magic. Now you're a part of it.
nWoD: You are a monster. The universe hates you.

Thing is, I'm noticing a tendency for re-released RPGs to go "darker and edgier" than their predecessors (*cough* SR5 *cough*), possibly following the zeitgeist. My problem with this is that "darker and edgier" =/= "more dramatic" =/= "better storytelling", as the designers appear to be thinking.

[SlowDeck]

After looking it over?

AndyNakamura summed it up on setting.  I'm looking at rules and noticing that, while mechanically you can mix the different groups, in fluff this produces a game that loses all themes and there appears to be no plans to change that. The classic game had them all tied together by the end, but mechanically was a bit of a mess to actually play.

There's also the fact that Masquerade, for all of its faults, had a complete setting that was easy to play for anyone. Requiem, for all of its blessings, lacks that. And a lot of people these days seem to prefer complete settings over setting-free games.

[Noble Drake]

There's also the fact that Masquerade, for all of its faults, had a complete setting that was easy to play for anyone. Requiem, for all of its blessings, lacks that. And a lot of people these days seem to prefer complete settings over setting-free games.

It's called "Blood and Smoke: the Strix Chronicle."

Each nWoD gameline is currently being looked at to follow suite, giving each a default chronicle (story and setting) - they have already done two (regular humans in The God Machine Chronicle, and vampires in the above book, and they even released some updates for playing Hunter: the Vigil with the God Machine stuff) and are in the design phase hammering out the Idigam Chronicle for werewolf.

It is no longer accurate to make your first claim, though I agree that the "pure toolkit" style of game is less popular these days than it once was.

[Basic]

I love new world of darkness and demon is epicly awesome.

[Mara]

I love new world of darkness and demon is epicly awesome.

I love both Worlds of Darkness, but for different reasons. Of course, my favourite Classic World of Darkness
games were Werewolf and Mage. My favourite NWoD games are...Werewolf and Mage. So, for me the, the
differences in the two both in terms of setting are more visible, and more intuitively understood.

cWoD: There is a secret world, just around the corner from yours, full of mystery, monsters, and magic. Now you're a part of it.
nWoD: You are a monster. The universe hates you.

I disagree with this. In BOTH, the whole "There is a secret world, just around the corner from yours, full of mystery, 
monsters, and magic. Now you're a part of it" is the core of it. However, so is the "You are a monster" dealy.

A Vampire in CWoD had the whole issues with their own Beast, and their slow, steady decline in Humanity to doing
unspeakable things. Masquerade was about the slow, inevitable downward spiral, while Requiem made it EASIER
to keep your Humanity higher. Werewolf, if you think the Werewolves weren't Monsters in Apocalypse, then you weren't
paying attention, and were doing the whole 'We are noble Warriors for Gaia, yadda-yadda-yackity smackity" stuff. You
did not deal with the acceptance of rape of Kinfolk by the Silver Fangs, the ease of triggering a Rage Roll, and the Curse,
pretty much everything the Shadow Lords were willing to do, and, oh, yeah, anything the Red Talons did to humans(like,
you know, their 'christmas trees'), the treatment of Metis, etc, etc. Frankly, Garou and Vampires are every bit the monsters
in both WoDs, just NWoD is a little more honest about it.

[Reaver]

The only thing I can add about VTM (old skool WoD) is that their table for humanity loss wasn't very complete, and led to some interesting shinanigains by some players... ("If I mind control Pete and get him to kill that guy, Then HE should suffer a humanity roll and not me. After all, he did the killing!!"

while Requiem fixed those silly stupid little loop holes to a far better extent...

[Noble Drake]

The only thing I can add about VTM (old skool WoD) is that their table for humanity loss wasn't very complete, and led to some interesting shinanigains by some players... ("If I mind control Pete and get him to kill that guy, Then HE should suffer a humanity roll and not me. After all, he did the killing!!"

while Requiem fixed those silly stupid little loop holes to a far better extent...

Yeah... I've had plenty of debates about Vampire revolving around the idea that one should adhere to the mechanics of the Humanity rules (make Pete do it and Pete is the only one that risks degeneration), rather than the idea of them (do bad stuff, and you lose yourself to the monster within).

...though I also had a lot of debates about whether alternate paths were good or bad for role-playing - I always saw them as a kind of "free pass" to do whatever nasty stuff you wanted your character to do and would be driven into madness by if only he hadn't just decided not to follow the path of humanity anymore.

[Mara]

The only thing I can add about VTM (old skool WoD) is that their table for humanity loss wasn't very complete, and led to some interesting shinanigains by some players... ("If I mind control Pete and get him to kill that guy, Then HE should suffer a humanity roll and not me. After all, he did the killing!!"

while Requiem fixed those silly stupid little loop holes to a far better extent...

Yeah... I've had plenty of debates about Vampire revolving around the idea that one should adhere to the mechanics of the Humanity rules (make Pete do it and Pete is the only one that risks degeneration), rather than the idea of them (do bad stuff, and you lose yourself to the monster within).

...though I also had a lot of debates about whether alternate paths were good or bad for role-playing - I always saw them as a kind of "free pass" to do whatever nasty stuff you wanted your character to do and would be driven into madness by if only he hadn't just decided not to follow the path of humanity anymore.

In Masquerade, I never saw the Paths of Enlightenment like that. They were more "You have given up any illusions of being
human, and have embraced the monster you really are. Of course, you have to use some guidelines to keep your Beast
in check and keep you from just going around killing and eating anything you encounter as a feral animal in human form,
so...here are the paths that keep you in check." Some are actually MORE restrictive then Humanity. And some, you can
actually be a fairly nice vampire(for a sociopath). I think I figured that one of my characters, played as I envisioned him,
would be Humanity 4, but Path of Power and the Inner Voice 5 or 6, based on his routine actions. (Fun note: one time
in a LARP, I was playing this character, and I was trying to tell my loyal underling to execute the Ventrue I was dealing
with, but..I had one of those word burps that sometimes happens where you can't find the right word, and your brain
goes looking for it, and you come up with a completely different word then you wanted to use. So, instead of saying
"Valentinius. Execute him." I ended up with "Valentinius.(pause for what turns out to be a dramatic second) Vivisect
him." Fun times were had by all that night! Well...except the Ventrue..)