[martinchaen]

Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.

[Tenlaar]

With the 5E prices, I can see a corp buying them maybe 100 at a time for a discount and having a few people in each department with the ability to assume various roles to fill gaps in the wageslave roster as needed.  Your pinch hitters, as it were.

[Tarislar]

Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?

There is a whole Merc unit of Rich kids that do just that.
We'll not lie abou being Wildcats, but basically lack skills & just use awesome levels of skillwires.

[Elektrycerze3]

If the system and programs are so expensive I really dont get how corps can afford to outfit all of their employees with them, remain cost effective and turn a profit, thats what baffles me.

Simple: they don't outfit all of them. I am not sure why everybody thinks they are so ubiquitous:

Generally speaking, skillwires are reserved for “disposable” non-citizen employees, typically menial laborers in production facilities or sweat shops. This results from the strong social stigma attached to skillwires, which many citizens view as evidence that an employee is too slow to learn things the “normal” way.

> Skillwires are seen as the crutch of the incompetent, the inept, and the lazy. Having skillwires means you rely on coded skills, instead of developing your own abilities. Since skillwires override muscle control and reflexes, you’re less likely to learn from experience and develop your own talents to any exceptional level.
> Butch

[Csjarrat]

i think it was the 4e book that gave the impression they should be quite ubiquitous:

Sr4a 330

They are highly favored, however, by corporations interested in cheap labor

[martinchaen]

Both skillwires and linguasofts were touted as commonly used in SR4, linguasofts in particular. This is apparently not the case in SR5, seeing as how they now cost an arm and a leg (literally; you can buy cyberlimbs for less...).

[Elektrycerze3]

i think it was the 4e book that gave the impression they should be quite ubiquitous:

Yeah, I see your point.


By the way, just to add to the topic of corps turning profit through skillwires: remember that they can deduct the cost of the 'ware from the employees earnings over the course of their lives and  they also can pull the 'wires out when they need to install them in "fresh meat". It's a dystopia, after all =)

[KarmaInferno]

Nevermind Shadowrun-specific references, skillwires are pretty much a genre-wide trope and often portrayed as being used by low level unskilled workers.



-k

[Eoghammer]

Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?

I often use such a character as a NPC helping my players group to overcome some lack in their skill pool...

The rising price in the 5th edition have caused a pair of my players to heavily modify their character ...

[PeterSmith]

Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.

This assumes the prices the corps pay are the same prices the runners would pay.

[martinchaen]

PeterSmith
My comment assumes no such thing; the major difference between editions is the requirement in 5th for a skilljack; in SR4, a hot-sim modified commlink was enough.

The linguasofts themselves only jumped a little bit in price; the steep entry point in SR5 comes from the now mandatory Essence loss and cost of 20k per rating for the skilljack.

Essentially, if SR5 had kept the requirement of a hotsim modified commlink from SR4, the slight increase (well, double) in cost of the linguasoft itself would have been tolerable. The requirement of the skilljack is what kills linguasofts for Awakened and/or Emerged Face type characters (Essence loss = magic loss, which very often means it won't even be considered), and for a lot of characters who are resource heavy in other respects (street samurai, deckers, riggers).

In short, in the span of 3 years in-game (2072 to 2075), linguasofts went from being "prolific" (in other words, abundant, something most people could afford even on their own), to being completely out of reach for nearly everyone except the corps. That might not be particularly out-of-character for the corps, but it is hugely jarring in terms of game balance.

Adepts with Linguistics are now kings of faces, if you deal with multiple languages. The mere fact that some tables have chosen to entirely handwave language should be an indication that this rule change did not have the intended effect (unless that was the intended effect, in which case why even bother with the whole languages section in the book?).

[Sendaz]

Would it be possible to build a character who tells everyone he's a total bad-ass, say former Sioux Wildcat or something, but really he's just a guy who works out and has tons of skillsofts?

That was pretty much the concept behind Sakura Kunoichi from Street Legends: Home edition who was running tons of 'softs. 

[Novocrane]

PeterSmith
My comment assumes no such thing [snip]

The linguasofts themselves only jumped a little bit in price; the steep entry point in SR5 comes from the now mandatory Essence loss and cost of 20k per rating for the skilljack.

That's exactly why it's an assumption.

You're assuming corporations pay prices that are themselves raised by retail or blackmarket sellers, can't subsidise their own gear to cover the portion of costs involved in resources and manufacture, and can't make back the money lost on the sales of the gear in use.

[martinchaen]

Novocrane
Like I said, I made no reference to corps one way or the other; the topic at hand as far as I'm concerned is the requirement change from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.

This is the ONLY difference as to why the price point is so different between editions, and trying to argue that the corps pay a different price has absolutely no bearing on why the requirement changed from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.

[Novocrane]

Novocrane
Like I said, I made no reference to corps one way or the other; the topic at hand as far as I'm concerned is the requirement change from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.

This is the ONLY difference as to why the price point is so different between editions, and trying to argue that the corps pay a different price has absolutely no bearing on why the requirement changed from hot-sim modified commlink to skilljack.

Agreed, skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces that accompanies the rules. This is one of those cases where fluff and crunch really doesn't match up.

You apparently aren't going to try to disprove the validity of the conjecture presented. While it is unrelated to the switch from commlinks to skilljacks, if you are only going to talk about that switch, perhaps you would prefer avoiding comments that prompt responses on other points.

skillwires and linguasofts jumped out of the reach of the mass produced "one for everyone" fluff pieces

This specifically, while not a direct mention of corps, may as well be - mass production is difficult to separate from them, and the "for everyone" thing is generally a "for the wageslaves" thing when you boil it down.