[Mirikon]

Indeed. Harlequin makes things more interesting. Personally, I don't see why people call him a 'Mary Sue'. That's like saying Damien Knight and Lofwyr are a Mary Sues. Harlequin is a major NPC and plot device.

[Critias]

I really hate how everyone has started to call every character they don't like, ever, in any medium, a Mary Sue.  That's not what a Mary Sue is. 

[Furious Trope]

Removing Harlequin from SR would be like Bat-Man without the Joker or Sherlock Holmes without drug references...where would be the fun then?

I didn't remove him, per say.

Did I mention the part of how suspiciously well preserved his head is?

[SlowDeck]

My only encounters with Harlequin in fiction are in Shadowrun Returns and Storm Front; both times, he demonstrates very high Sue-ish qualities.

But, then again, people forget that being a Mary Sue is not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people hate Mary Sues because of the bad fiction that uses them, while forgetting that by the same test of what makes a Mary Sue there are a lot of heroes from a variety of fiction that fit the bill. For example, the tale of how King Arthur becomes king is pretty much a Mary Sue story. Yet that doesn't stop it from being a good story.

I am comfortable calling Harlequin a Mary Sue simply because, from what I see, he is one. Yet at the same time, I don't think the setting or some of the events in it would work as well without him. Nor do I think he is a bad character because of it. In fact, he's probably better for it, given how he came across in Shadowrun Returns as being the only character with a true sense of humor and as subtly mocking everything while at the same time being willing to outright admit you can't trust him. Out of all of the people who manipulate your character in that game, he's the most honest about it.

[Mirikon]

You need to check and see what a Mary Sue actually is, then. Just because a character is high-powered and does outlandish things does not make them a Mary Sue, especially when they are an NPC. Would you say that Lofwyr is a Mary Sue? Afterall, he's one of the most high-powered characters in the setting, and goes around doing pretty much whatever he pleases, right? Except that's not what a Mary Sue is.

Mary Sue
See Mary-Sue. A female fanfiction character who is so perfect as to be annoying. The male equivlalent is the Marty-Stu. Often abbreviated to "Sue". A Mary Sue character is usually written by a beginning author. Often, the Mary Sue is a self-insert with a few "improvements" (ex. better body, more popular, etc). The Mary Sue character is almost always beautiful, smart, etc... In short, she is the "perfect" girl. The Mary Sue usually falls in love with the author's favorite character(s) and winds up upstaging all of the other characters in the book/series/universe.

Harlequin is a long-established, high-level magic NPC who has always been crazy. Now, if I wrote a character who came along, drank Perianwyr under the table, out magicked the entire Seelie Court, and won control of Ares from Damien Knight in a poker game, THAT would be a Mary Sue.

[SlowDeck]

Mirikon, I'm not the one who needs to check and see. Here's a few other definitions from that same entry:

A sexist term used to enforce the misogynistic ideals that female characters/authors shouldn't be allowed to fantasize or write anything along the lines of wish fulfillment. Its misogynistic qualities are exemplified in many ways, most notably being the fact that it's not a term dominated by the male counterpart despite existing in a patriarchal society, as well as the fact that the male counterpart is largely undecided upon in name and also undefined (see urban dictionary's Gary Stu entry which has no definition but to say "A Male Mary Sue", and the Marty-Stu entry which involves the "Mary Sue" definition to define it).

A female character who is so perfect that she is annoying. The name originated in a very short Star Trek story that mocked the sort of female characters who showed up in fanfiction. It usually refers to original female characters put into fanfiction, but can refer to any character.

A character too perfect for their setting. Most often, this character is talented and attractive, and anyone who doesn't adore them is portrayed as mean, stupid, or evil. It's common for them to be the smartest, even if this requires everyone else to act stupider than they should. Out of place but awesome names are also frequent occurrences. They lead charmed lives, and any conflict or drama they are met with will be either overdone to the point of headache induction, or easily brushed aside.

Every other definition I've checked that was comprehensive pretty much boiled down to those four. Harlequin qualifies as a Mary Sue under the last definition I posted. After all, he showed signs in Storm Front of going toe-to-toe against a great dragon. Lofwyr doesn't count because, to be blunt, even Lofwyr has made some pretty big boneheaded mistakes. So have all of the other Great Dragons, each in their own way. And Lofwyr has suffered quite a bit for his actions in how they affect his company as of late, in addition to his injuries after going up against another Great Dragon.

Harlequin? He fought a Great Dragon, appeared to have a good chance of winning, and walked away mostly unharmed. Lofwyr? In his most recent battle against another Great Dragon, he was lucky to come out alive.

In many ways, Harlequin is too perfect. That's what makes him awesome. That's what makes him worth keeping around, and that's part of what makes him a likable character. Because he is that perfect in a setting where, pretty much, everything else is utter crap and even dragons suffer serious consequences. The fact he's just utterly insane and doesn't work to make things better just means he adds another level to the dystopia.

[Critias]

But that's the thing that rubs me raw about everyone tossing around Mary Sue (or Marty Stu) willy-nilly -- whose Mary Sue are they?  They're long-established characters that have been around for longer than many new players have.  They were established by some writer, somewhere, some-when, and then changed, and used again, and changed, and used again, and again, by different writers each time, heck sometimes by different companies each time. 

They're not some fanfic insert, any more than Captain America or Superman are (zomg so noble and powerful!). 

They're characters some folks don't like, sure, and I have no problem with that.  I just dislike the term being thrown around wildly, when all people really should say is "that's a character I don't like."  As it is, the term gets used so much it's losing all meaning.

[Furious Trope]

But that's the thing that rubs me raw about everyone tossing around Mary Sue (or Marty Stu) willy-nilly -- whose Mary Sue are they?  They're long-established characters that have been around for longer than many new players have.  They were established by some writer, somewhere, some-when, and then changed, and used again, and changed, and used again, and again, by different writers each time, heck sometimes by different companies each time. 

They're not some fanfic insert, any more than Captain America or Superman are (zomg so noble and powerful!). 

They're characters some folks don't like, sure, and I have no problem with that.  I just dislike the term being thrown around wildly, when all people really should say is "that's a character I don't like."  As it is, the term gets used so much it's losing all meaning.

I think you hit on the difference between a successful "mary sue" and the ones responsible for the term's ill-repute.

Harlequin, though less than Captain America or superman, has taken on a life of his own. It's easy to leave them as an absurd-power-fantasy, which is why it's so easy to write superman badly or have Harlequin come off as that douchebag GM's "PC" who hangs out with the group and makes look bad. The whole reason "Mary sue" is a pejorative was because the characters took up too much attention and the pay off was for the writer not the audience. I'd also like to point out not all Mary-Sues include self-insertion, but I suspect you already know that.

Personally, I like my Harlequin the way I like my Illuminati: Doing vaguely menacing things offscreen that make my life harder. I wouldn't have either over for tea.

[Mirikon]

Tea? No. Drinks? Hell yes. I would just love to hear the things Harlequin rambles about when he gets wasted.

[Furious Trope]

Tea? No. Drinks? Hell yes. I would just love to hear the things Harlequin rambles about when he gets wasted.

...I stand corrected.

[SlowDeck]

Getting Harlequin wasted... Now that sounds like an interesting hook for an adventure. Maybe even Ghostwalker getting revenge by hiring runners to get the IE drunk and broadcast what he says over the Matrix.

I could imagine how much fun they would have writing what he rambles!

[DeathStrobe]

I'm sure that IE are rather upset that their magical immunity to toxins prevents them from getting high or drunk. However, I'm sure they at least like the part that saves them from being poisoned.

Though, I imagine they have to make etiquette rolls when at public social events to pretend to be drunk. Just to keep up the illusion that they're not immortal.

[Senko]

As I recall Harlequinn was pretty much dragon bait after being slammed into the building until frost
Showed up and conviced him he was making a mistake.

[SlowDeck]

Storm Front made it look like they were both in bad shape after that, though it implies that neither one was wounded enough to prevent them from continuing. Ghostwalker slammed him against the building, moved in for the kill, and ended up bleeding a lot for his trouble. The way they describe Harlequin, it's more like he had the wind knocked out of him and is exhausted, while Ghostwalker is bleeding all over and obviously on his last bit of energy as well. And from the wording by both Frosty herself and others, Harlequin was quite capable of continuing the fight.

Though, he's apparently let something loose worse in Denver than Aztechnology, he's trying to undo it, seemed not to be himself for a bit, used technomancers and others...

Suddenly, I am wondering just how accurate my joke about Harlequin being Sybil actually is. If he's Patient Zero, it might explain why they weren't able to track him down and also might explain everything about what happened in Denver.

[Furious Trope]

Though, he's apparently let something loose worse in Denver than Aztechnology, he's trying to undo it, seemed not to be himself for a bit, used technomancers and others...

Suddenly, I am wondering just how accurate my joke about Harlequin being Sybil actually is. If he's Patient Zero, it might explain why they weren't able to track him down and also might explain everything about what happened in Denver.

I'd be pretty OK with this.

And, IIRC, the "worse" things were Maelstrom and Oblivion, whose names are about all the detail about them we've got. spooky spooky shadow spirits!