[Senko]

Ok I think there's no point to my buying a lowlight flashlight accessory for my gun but . . . something just feels wrong with my reasoning and I've no idea what's bothering me so I'm just looking for some confirmation that I'm right here and can ignore the feeling. So starting off with the basics a pistol has a top and bottom mount available . . .

1) If I mount a lowlight flashlight on the bottom mount it puts out a very dim beam that allows the elf to see clearly but isn't better than starlight for a human.
2) If I add an image scope on the top mount it works as artificial vision so when the elfs looking through a pair of glasses/goggles they can see things clearly till they activate the smartlink they wouldn't see anything because the imagelink doesn't have low light capability.
3) To benefit from the smartlink system I also need an imagelink system as its an upgrade to that and wont work without the base program.
4) Since I'm using a Fichetti Security 600 the bottom/top mounts already taken up by the inherent laser sight leaving me 1 mount available.
5) As I have only 1 mount and need an imagelink to benefit from the smartlink I need to buy the imaging scope with an imagelink as well (plus internal/external smartlink and same on the goggles).

So I will end up with a Fichetti Security 600 with a lasercope on the bottom mount and a imaging scope on the top one with vision magnifcation, imagelink and smartlink taking up 2 capacity leaving me 1 to take as flare compensation, lowlight or thermographic vision in my last capacity upgrade?

[kuromi]

1) yes.

Totally confused about the rest of this. This will probably devolve into an argument over what the book means when they refer to "smartgun" and "smartlink"  when its pretty much common sense. The smartgun system is what goes on the gun and lets you do all the smartgun stuff with the gun. The smartlink is the interface, and is useless without the smartgun portion of the system. When a weapon's stat block says "smartlink" they frickin mean smartgun system. People keep asking for clarification and demand corrections in the errata when its friggin obvious.

Sorry, I digress. the vision modification "smartlink" is meant for like glasses and goggles and cyber-eyes. Putting the smartlink option on an imaging scope is not the same as putting a smartgun system on a weapon. You can use that as the interface (though that's totally awkward, one of the points of s smartgun is so you don't have to be aiming a gun like normal down the scope or iron sights), but you still need a smartgun system on the weapon.

Anyhoo, are you wanting the benefits of both vision magnification AND a smartgun system? The smartgun system has a micro camera with 1 capacity, so what you want to do is get an external smartgun system on the top mount, and pay 250 to put the vision magnification enhancement on the smartgun's micro-camera, and put the rest of the vision mods you want (flare, imagelink, thermo, smartlink) on the goggles.

[Senko]

Really just trying to work out what I actually need to benefit from a smartgun system. I thought it was semi-self contained as long as you have smartlnk in your glasses, goggles or a DNI but my google search turned up posts saying you needed imagelink to benefit from a smartlink system which made me a little confused and then it got worse from there. Right now I'm just trying to determine am I right in thinking . . .

1) Lowlight vision doesn't do you any good even with a lowlight source if the artificial interface (imaging scope) doesn't have a lowlight vision adapation.
2) A smartgun system doesn't need a smartlink but an imaging scope does to receive the output from the smartgun.
3) To use a smartlink system you also need an imagelink system.
4) If a gun has inherent components e.g. the laser scope on a Fichetti does that count againts the mounts or is that built in with the mounts still available.

Specifically with my gun (Fichetti Security 600) only having 1 mount available if I put an imaging scope on the top mount and need a imagelink and smartlink to get the benefit from the smartgun system.

[martinchaen]

Use the search function; there's a couple topics dealing with smartlinks/smartgun systems, and they devolved into some pretty long winded arguments (chiefly between two people, you know who you are).

Keep in mind that any mod that comes with the weapon (if it indeed uses the appropriate slot, this is also hotly debated) can most likely be removed under the Run & Gun modification rules. As such, the laser sight could be replaced by an external smartgun system if you desire, or you could keep the laser sight and add an internal smartgun system.

To benefit from the smartgun system you need a smartlink, not an image link. This can be achieved in one of two ways; an implanted one (either cybereye accessory or directly implanted in your natural eye), or an equipment one (installed in a pair of contacts, glasses, or goggles). You probably also need DNI to get the benefits of Eject Clip and Change Firing Mode as a Free Action.

The imaging scope does not require an image link per se; you can still look through it like you would a modern day scope, you just can't fire around corners with it's benefits.

And yes, if you're using the imaging scope to aim, it won't get the benefits of low-light vision unless you buy the low-light vision enhancement for it. The flashlight would still help whenever you aim naturally or with the help of the smartgun system, however, as you'd be using your natural sight.

[Kincaid]

1. This is one of those things that is probably best left to the table.  In theory, if your scope is working like an image intensifier, the low-light flashlight is giving it more ambient light to process, so there's a case to be made that the scope doesn't need the low-light enhancement.

2. It does need a smartlink.  Page 444, "Without a smartlink, a smartlink system just sends out data that isn't received by anyone and has no effect."

3. If you're getting DNI from your datajack or trodes, they also function as imaging devices, so you don't need an Image Link in addition to one of these.

4. That's the question that launched a thousand posts.  Integral sometimes seems to mean internal and other times does not.  Opinions vary, but simply because it's easiest, I'm going with all accessories that come with a weapon are inherent and do not take a slot (even the internal slot).  You have weapons with multiple internal mechanisms off-the-shelf, so having only one internal slot makes things too cluttered for my taste.

And at least by how I read R&G, pistols don't get an underbarrel mount, but they do get a side mount.

[kuromi]

Yeah, imagelink is not needed to utilize the smartgun system. Imagelink is basically just a display in your field of vision. You can use it to see AROs, you could even have a little video feed in the upper right corner of your vision with real time images of what your teammate is seeing through their own imaging scope or other cameras they have on them, provided they're transmitting such data to you (or heh, you could just have the big game on or the news or whatever even). But yeah, a gun with no smartgun system will send out data saying how many rounds you have left and what ammo type it is, though without an image link, I don't think you'd be able to see that data in your field of vision.

The smartlink is kinda a specialized version of that- in addition to the ammo left and type, it will display a little crosshairs of where your gun is pointing at, range to target, heat-build up, stress on the parts, etc. Presumably if you use it to fire around corners, it will open up a little video window to show what the camera on the smartgun sees so you can use that to aim and shoot around corners. So if you have a smartlink and no image link, gun data is all you see. If you have an imagelink and a smartgun system on your gun but no smartlink, the gun is sending out that data, but the imagelink doesn't understand what to do with that data without a smartlink.

An image link is definitely useful if you don't have DNI, but it is in no way needed to use a smartgun system. The imaging scope doesn't do jack for a smartgun system unless you have the smartlink modification on it.

[Senko]

Ok so I had misunderstood some stuff there, trodes count as a smartlink so if I have gun + smartgun + trodes + imaging scope do I need to use a capicity slot on the scope to give it a smartlink or does the guns internal smartgun system give me all the images I  need and I can switch/have dual image of the scope for other benefits e.g. thermographic vision?

[martinchaen]

Trodes do not count as a smartlink, where are you getting that from?

The only thing that counts as a smartlink is a smartlink; either implanted directly or in a cybereye, or as a vision enhancement in goggles, glasses, contacts, or similar.

You can switch between vision modes; nothing I've seen in the rules indicate that you can have BOTH low-light vision AND thermal vision (for example) active at the same time for a "best of both worlds" scenario.

[Kincaid]

Ok so I had misunderstood some stuff there, trodes count as a smartlink so if I have gun + smartgun + trodes + imaging scope do I need to use a capicity slot on the scope to give it a smartlink or does the guns internal smartgun system give me all the images I  need and I can switch/have dual image of the scope for other benefits e.g. thermographic vision?

Trodes count as DNI, which is different than counting as a smartlink.  Nothing counts as a smartlink but a smartlink.  Having DNI in addition to having a smartlink lets you do certain things, like Free Action eject clip.  Whether it's in your cybereye, mirror shades, or imaging scope, a smartlink is always going to take capacity.

EDIT: Dammit!  martinchaen is 2 for 2 on ninjaing me this thread!

[Whiskeyjack]

If the gun doesn't come with an internal smartgun system you need to mount an external smartgun on the gun along with having access to a smartlink (for you, probably via goggles unless you pay for cybereyes).

If it comes with an internal smartgun system then you don't need an external smartgun attachment but you do still need a smartlink.

[Xenon]

Firearms (not just smartguns) let you eject clip and change fire mode as a free action
To utilize this benefit you need a wireless connection working in concert with DNI (no smart link needed)

Smartgun come with a built in camera that let you shoot around corners without exposing yourself
To utilize this benefit you need DNI, image link or smart link.

Smartgun system let you increase accuracy by 2.
To utilize this benefit you need a smart link.

Smartgun system give you a positive dice pool bonus.
To utilize this benefit you need a smart link as well as a wireless connection working in concert with DNI

Smartgun system let you ignore one level of wind
To utilize this benefit you need a smart link as well as a wireless connection working in concert with DNI

Smartgun system let you get both dice pool and limit bonus from Take Aim
To utilize this benefit you need a smart link as well as a wireless connection working in concert with DNI

[martinchaen]

Hehe, somehow I knew Xenon would chime in here. Thanks for doing what I'm too lazy to do, man

[Critias]

Also, don't forget, not all of this crap needs to be hanging off of your gun.  Do you really want to be pointing your gun at something to see (which is an issue with flashlights IRL, too, where guns are concerned)?  Do you really want to have to have your gun on you, much less in your hand, to see in the dark?  Personally, I'd rather invest in some goggles or glasses (even if you don't want cybereyes, being a spellcaster and all), than have all this stuff on my piece.

[martinchaen]

What, like these?



EDIT:
I'd allow a side or bottom mount flashlight to be detachable, by the way.

[SlowDeck]

I could see mounting flashlights to drone weapons. The reason wouldn't be to see with; you would have the drone's sensor for that. The reason would be to catch someone off-guard by suddenly blinding them right before you open fire.