[voydangel]

When adding to the overwatch score you add the hits for defense tests against your Attack or Sleaze actions, and you add the sum of the dice (like with Initiative rolls) for the 15-minute 2D6 "auto OS increase action".

So, my question is this: Doesn't that seem a bit harsh considering there's no way to reduce your OS score? I mean, wasn't there a complex action back in 4a that allowed you to try to cover your tracks? Why is this no longer an option? Not to mention that TM's get to completely erase ALL of their activity for super cheap with minor risk as a complex action, or for "free" with a CF. Does anyone house rule this a little differently? Or has this been real-life play tested enough that people now generally agree that it is fine as is in the 5e RAW?
I'm just curious as I have yet to really get into the nitty gritty of 5e hacking

[ve4grm]

Erasing your overwatch is as simple as rebooting your deck. You lose any existing marks, but can always reboot and try again from scratch.

So basically, if you're a decker, and you find yourself failing a lot of hacking actions, load up Baby Monitor, see where you're at, and reboot/start over if you need to.

[voydangel]

Yea, that's pretty much how I understand it works.
I was just curious if i was missing something that allowed you to try to reduce your OS by your net hits on a "reduce OS" action, or something similar.
Guess not.
Just seems odd that you have all these deckers/hackers running around constantly rebooting. Are they all running windows ME ?

[Razhul]

The new Matrix is described as much less hacker-friendly and thus it will expel you at some point, if you continue doing naughty things to it.

[dertechie]

Yea, that's pretty much how I understand it works.
I was just curious if i was missing something that allowed you to try to reduce your OS by your net hits on a "reduce OS" action, or something similar.
Guess not.
Just seems odd that you have all these deckers/hackers running around constantly rebooting. Are they all running windows ME ?

They claim to be.  After all, what kind of hacker runs Renraku-Microsoft Windows ME?  Clearly a script kiddie, can't possibly be the guy who hit that Lone Star host.

[DeathStrobe]

Yea, that's pretty much how I understand it works.
I was just curious if i was missing something that allowed you to try to reduce your OS by your net hits on a "reduce OS" action, or something similar.
Guess not.
Just seems odd that you have all these deckers/hackers running around constantly rebooting. Are they all running windows ME ?

You could always be a Technomancer if you find OS to be such a problem.

[voydangel]

You could always be a Technomancer if you find OS to be such a problem.

Oh, this has nothing to do with making a character, I just enjoy figuring out the rules.
Game balancing is a hobby for me (used to get paid to do it, but no longer), so I sometimes like to nit pick little details, get community feedback, etc. when things strike me oddly.
Just for my own personal gratification. Plus it's a fun community and I like to hear what people think/feel about things beyond just RAW sometimes.

[Davidvs]

Do you think the OS thing is due to game balance between the TM and Deckers? i.e. the Deckers are better hackers so the OS is there to give the TMs a leg-up, so to speak?

[voydangel]

I personally feel that TM's are underpowered right now, and that regular hackers are about right in the grand scheme of things, other than the fact that decks and RCC's are overpriced.

I do think that they put in the OS/reboot mechanic as a "nerf" to non-TM hackers, but I feel it is a poor implementation for balance as it really doesn't add anything to the games "experience". I feel that there could be a better solution that actually adds something interesting to the game rather than using a mechanic that simply requires players to have to start over every so often, which feels clunky and annoying to me.

As many game designers are aware, it is sometimes better to severely gimp someone in a way that feels appropriate rather than only mildly gimp them in a way that feels awkward or heavy handed. This is one of those cases where, IMHO, it makes hackers feel gimped, where it may have been better to come up with a more elegant solution, even if that solution was technically a more severe hindrance than the current setup.

[ve4grm]

Do you think the OS thing is due to game balance between the TM and Deckers? i.e. the Deckers are better hackers so the OS is there to give the TMs a leg-up, so to speak?

While it serves that purpose, no, that wasn't the reason. A big part of the 5e matrix design was trying to make deckers an active part of the team. OS ensures that the decker can't just set everything up weeks in advance, and thus do nothing while the rest of the party acts (and the rest do nothing while he sets things up). Because of OS, the decker needs to be there, performing their role with the rest of the team.

Similarly, noise ensures that the decker can't just sit at home while everyone else is out doing the job. The matrix redesign focused on this a lot.

[voydangel]

Do you think the OS thing is due to game balance between the TM and Deckers? i.e. the Deckers are better hackers so the OS is there to give the TMs a leg-up, so to speak?

While it serves that purpose, no, that wasn't the reason. A big part of the 5e matrix design was trying to make deckers an active part of the team. OS ensures that the decker can't just set everything up weeks in advance, and thus do nothing while the rest of the party acts (and the rest do nothing while he sets things up). Because of OS, the decker needs to be there, performing their role with the rest of the team.

Similarly, noise ensures that the decker can't just sit at home while everyone else is out doing the job. The matrix redesign focused on this a lot.

I completely agree 100%, but then why did they make it so that TM's can completely bypass all those rules? you see the dilemma? =P It's mainly an issue with consistency.

[TheDai]

Question:

If you have a direct connection to a Device, does the devices hits still add to your OS? The book doesn't spell it out, but is does say that Grids, Hosts, and everything doesn't matter, it's just you and the device. GOD shouldn't see you.

So if true, you could get a mark on a device ==> Mark on the Host ==> While your in the Host your OS doesn't increase with attack/sleaze actions ==> get out without ever having an OS rating higher than 0.

Since TM's cannot get direct connections by the book, they'd always increase their OS and thus need a way to reduce it.
But that's just my personal theory.

[voydangel]

That is a good question TheDai! Put more generally: Is there any way at all to hack into a device/host/grid/whatever without getting any OS? Does the direct connect through a device idea work? if yes, can someone detail the way to do that in game mechanics speak (rolls/actions/etc.) and if not, is there a way? how?

[Razhul]

I don't think you can avoid OS. The Matrix for 5th edition was built to revolt against hacking. That means its protocols detect even minute actions that violate its basic rules. I would assume that even hacking an offline camera via datacable would cause OS as long as that camera is connected to a host that is connected to the Matrix. The Matrix protocols apply to all devices connected to it, similarly to TCP/IP protocols, maybe?

[Xenon]

So, my question is this: Doesn't that seem a bit harsh considering there's no way to reduce your OS score?

I'd say it is working as intended. Deckers are not supposed to reduce their OS (in this edition).
Deckers are supposed to jack in for an hour or two and then jack out.

Technomancers can only reduce their OS if they learned the Cleaner Complex Form.
This is a game mechanic that Deckers does not have access to.
This let her Trace, Snoop and keep all Marks on Devices an Host(s) for many hours

Deckers can establish a physical direct connection with a device to bypass host ratings.
This is a game mechanic that TMs does not have access to.
This let him get a new Mark on a Host after jacking out as long as he got physical proximity to a slaved device.

Question:

Attack and Sleaze actions are Matrix Actions
(no mention that they are available while not connected to the Matrix):
SR5 p. 237 Matrix Actions
Matrix actions are only available in the Matrix...Matrix actions are special because certain rules apply to them, like noise and the Overwatch Score.


Opposed hits on attack or sleaze action increase your OS
(no mention that opposed hits on attack or sleaze actions during direct connection ignore OS):
SR5 p. 232 Overwatch Score and Convergence
When you perform an Attack or Sleaze action, your OS increases by the number of hits the target gets on its defense test.


Direct connection let you ignore noise, public- and cross grid penalties
(no mention that direct connection ignore OS):
SR5 p. 232 Direct Connections
When you use a direct connection, you ignore all noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different grids or the public grid.