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Weapon Foci Cyberlimbs

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Novocrane

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« Reply #15 on: <07-23-14/1438:12> »
some people like to argue for arguments sake
I was under the impression it was because they took an immediate disliking to the idea. I'm going to run with cyberlimb foci working until specific rules or setting info are brought up to prevent it.

Marcus

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« Reply #16 on: <07-23-14/1443:50> »
My objection to turning a cyberarm into a weapon foci really comes down to the tech of a cyberlimb is way to much.
Your talking about turning a whole bunch of microprocessors, some nano-tech, some kind of power source, and of a lot actuators into a foci.
The arm is going to be much more modular. You don't replace the power cell in your weapon foci, you don't get you weapon foci checked out and tuned up.
Your weapon foci can't take matrix damage. Your weapon foci doesn't have capacity for upgrade slots.

I say no to an arm. I'd accept that you could weapon foci spurs, or razor claws.
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MijRai

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« Reply #17 on: <07-23-14/1507:47> »
My perspective on this is that it'd be...  Unlikely, to turn a complete cyberlimb into a weapon focus.  However, I'd probably rule that spurs/hand razors/etc. could be made into a focus. 

Anyways, if I remember correctly, isn't there a table that specifies how difficult it is to turn things into foci, the more processed they are?  A cyberlimb (as a whole) would probably fall off the deep end of that chart. 

And Martin, I've not yet seen an example of a memory blade, shock glove, or chainsaw weapon focus (or survival knife, for that matter).  Personally, I'd take any of those ideas (besides the survival knife) and toss them in the trash. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Medicineman

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« Reply #18 on: <07-23-14/1724:20> »
Quote
However, I'd probably rule that spurs/hand razors/etc. could be made into a focus. 
it's perfectly rules legal for Spurs etc to be Weapon Foci (for 3 Editions now IIRC)

I still wonder why Devil wants a Cyberarm for a Weapon Focus when he can get Cyberweapons for Foci .
they do more damage and they're  within the rules, whereas his Cyberarm Focus is inferior and needs Houserules....
I could've understood if He'd ask for cyberknuckles or other ...non-RAW Cyberweapons though.

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Namikaze

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« Reply #19 on: <07-23-14/1815:58> »
Sendaz,

Thank you for bringing up that quote - that negates what I thought was correct.  I stand corrected.

Martinchaen,

I'm going to assume that this wasn't directed at me:

some people like to argue for arguments sake

Am I correct in believing that this is not directed at me?
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

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Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Lusis

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« Reply #20 on: <07-23-14/1827:47> »
Ah! The main issue with enchanting complex technology is Object Resistance (pg 295, SR5). A cyberlimb will have an OR of 15 or more dice! That's quite an order to expect an artificer to fill, especially when the working end (i.e, razors, blades and spurs) could reasonably have an OR of 3.

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ZeConster

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« Reply #21 on: <07-23-14/1838:56> »
Which is why if you want to, for example, turn your motorcycle into a Force 6 Qi Focus (Improved Ability (Pilot Groundcraft) 3), you typically pay an NPC, rather than doing the work yourself.

MijRai

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« Reply #22 on: <07-23-14/1846:05> »
Which is why if you want to, for example, turn your motorcycle into a Force 6 Qi Focus (Improved Ability (Pilot Groundcraft) 3), you typically pay an NPC, rather than doing the work yourself.

The problem with that is finding an NPC who's skilled enough to do that kind of job, and affording their increased rates. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Marcus

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« Reply #23 on: <07-23-14/1930:48> »
Which is why if you want to, for example, turn your motorcycle into a Force 6 Qi Focus (Improved Ability (Pilot Groundcraft) 3), you typically pay an NPC, rather than doing the work yourself.

While this maybe potentially possible, I'll tell you right now that, it would be way more cost effective, in terms of time, skill, and money to have your lucky dice or your keys turned into that qi focus. Or better still a nice tattoo that way you couldn't lose it, or worry about it getting damaged.

I'm all for cool and creative foci. I'm a big fan of the Armored Jacket Sustaining focus for instance, but stepping back a level of complexity or two can give you result you want without any push back.

For example no one would argue if you got weapon foci striker gloves or brass knuckles to go over your cyberlimb. It would work just the same system wise, and there would be no issue.
« Last Edit: <07-23-14/1933:13> by Marcus »
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Devil

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« Reply #24 on: <07-23-14/1933:06> »
I'm not sure what cyberknuckles are. Do they exist in SR5?

Quote
Cyberlimbs can be dangerous even
if they don’t have cyberweapons installed— their unarmed
Damage Value is (STR)P.

Quote
They are
astral constructs embedded within physical objects.

Quote
The physical
form of a focus varies—bracelets, amulets, belts, wands,
walking sticks, staves, cups, bottle caps, daggers, hats,
hip flasks, pens, and so on and so forth—although most
of the time a focus reflects the tradition of its maker.

Quote
QI Foci: Yantra Tattoos
Here are a few examples of qi foci from the Tantric tradition. These yantra tattoos are quite popular among young adepts, partly
because they’re effective, partly because it’s hard to remove, but mostly because they look pretty badass.

Quote
A weapon focus always has, unsurprisingly, the form of
a melee weapon. It adds magical power to the melee
attacks you make with it. When used in physical combat,
it gives you its Force as a dice pool bonus on your melee
Attack Test. You still rely on your Physical Attributes and
skills in combat; the weapon focus merely makes you
more effective.

Quote
SOCIETY OF THE
PHOENIX ARISEN
Members (est.): 18
Dues: 200¥/year
For those who do not check the screamsheets, the
Society of the Phoenix Arisen is a small collection of
arcanists who have, for one reason or another, felt the
need to mettle with the purity of their bodies by installing
artificial augmentations.

This is all SR5. ^

So basically we know that just because it is a part of you does not mean it cant be a focus. (tattoos)

We know that cyberlimbs do more damage than normal unarmed attacks. They are used in Melee. If you can have hardliner glove weapon foci then why not a cyberarm? You have to bond with a focus, so a cyberarm makes even more sense than gloves.

We know that magic users with augmentations are not unheard of. Besides having organizations, they have Way Of The Burnout and Burnout's Way as character options. Don't you think organizations that focus on blending the two things would blend the two things?

Astral constructs embedded in physical objects that 'most of the time' get chosen based on the personal tradition of the maker.... seems like Foci can be almost anything.

What I'm asking is if there is anything that states that I can't do this, because there is a fair amount supporting that I can. Am I missing something?

Why can you enchant a metal blade sticking from your fist but not your metal fist?

Edit: Okay, so lets talk for a second about whether cyberlimbs are really a part of you. if they were would they eat essence? Do tattoos? If you prick your cyberarm does it bleed? What does it look like in the astral compared to you? So, I could remove it, enchant it, then put it back on? In theory you can enchant improvised weapons, right?
« Last Edit: <07-23-14/1950:16> by Devil »

Marcus

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« Reply #25 on: <07-23-14/2003:29> »
If it was simply a fist made out of metal there wouldn't be an issue. A fist made out of metal is just a funny shaped club. A cyberlimb is some serious complex tech. Its lots little of pieces of various materials connect together, powered by some kind of power source, managed by some decently sophisticated micro processors, connected to the user by some sort of seriously sophisticated hook up. Canon discussion of cyber-limbs includes that they have a high level of sensory feed back, to make that happen they have to be some how connected directly the nervous system, which probably means nano-tech.

If your enchanting a cyber-limb your aren't enchanting a single solid object your enchanting a complex modular technical system. What happens when you change the power source out? Now that limb is intrinsically a different object. Does the enchantment still hold? Or have you have to upgrade the software when a new patch comes out.

If you wanted to replace the limb with a hook, I'd have no issue with weapon focing that. But if your talking about the cyberlimb as discussed there lots of issues with that.
« Last Edit: <07-23-14/2006:23> by Marcus »
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Serin_Marst

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« Reply #26 on: <07-23-14/2018:01> »
If it was simply a fist made out of metal there wouldn't be an issue. A fist made out of metal is just a funny shaped club. A cyberlimb is some serious complex tech. Its lots little of pieces of various materials connect together, powered by some kind of power source, managed by some decently sophisticated micro processors, connected to the user by some sort of seriously sophisticated hook up. Canon discussion of cyber-limbs includes that they have a high level of sensory feed back, to make that happen they have to be some how connected directly the nervous system, which probably means nano-tech.

If your enchanting a cyber-limb your aren't enchanting a single solid object your enchanting a complex modular technical system. What happens when you change the power source out? Now that limb is intrinsically a different object. Does the enchantment still hold? Or have you have to upgrade the software when a new patch comes out.

Which all just means it's more difficult to enchant (high object resistance opposing the enchanting check), not that it can't be enchanted. 

Devil

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« Reply #27 on: <07-23-14/2025:52> »
Well there are no rule, as far as I can tell, for enchanting a part from something them putting it back in, or i'd be focused more on knuckles.

Marcus

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« Reply #28 on: <07-23-14/2034:49> »
Well there are no rule, as far as I can tell, for enchanting a part from something them putting it back in, or i'd be focused more on knuckles.

A set of Brass Knucks from 5th core can certainly be made into a weapon focus, and further they would fit over the fingers of a cyberlimb, no adjustment needed. Enchanting simple metal piece like those would be very straight forward, and they would do the job no problem. Nothing in RAW say it won't work. If you want them to match the look, that certainly doable, people make custom brass knuckles right now, it could easily be done.
That is clearly the way to go about this.
« Last Edit: <07-23-14/2037:52> by Marcus »
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dertechie

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« Reply #29 on: <07-23-14/2141:12> »
I think I'd let you do that (because Rule of Cool), but it would be a hard road.  That's not something you're going to find at your local Magic Mart (or at chargen).  They do have a whole case of (display) Weapon Focus Brass Knuckles and will be happy to order one for you, if you'll just show your license and sign these forms over here. . .

I'd basically require you to get a hold of a team of people with expertise in cyberware, artificing and augmenting the Awakened.  Gonna cost time and nuyen, of course. Lab space is expensive.  Orichalcum is expensive. Enchanting things with OR of 15+ is a risky business. Then you get to roll the dice and see how long this cutting edge research takes.  You might find yourself liberating some paydata from a corporate magical lab to assist in the process.

On the up side, if you succeed in this, you can probably stack some Adept powers that were never meant to be stacked.  Your contacts get published as the cover article in The Journal of the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research, so they'll be pretty happy about it.  As for you, you get a point of Distinctive Style for looking like an absolute badass with a cyberarm shot through with Orichalcum.