[Tarislar]

What do you feel is the "best" shotgun for a Runner to take ?

Of the CRB Shotguns there isn't a lot of choice.
The "Short" version of the Defiance isn't bad as a back up but its got an Internal Mag so no quick swaps of ammo, and its still "big"
The Enfield is sweet but its illegal & will draw serious attention.

Krime Boss is soso, pretty inaccurate, and how much is a "Drum" anyway ?  I can't find the cost for one.  Assuming its more than a spare clip at 5$

[Xenon]

Shotguns are my favorite weapon for snipers to take as a close-quarters weapon

Sniper rifles are my favorite weapon for snipers to take as close-quarters weapon

Compared to a shotgun; sniper rifles have higher accuracy, higher damage and more armor penetration. Only thing talking for shotguns compared to sniper rifles is that they are cheaper, but if you already invested into a sniper rifle then it will be more expansive to also get a shotgun.

In SR5 you can run n gun with a sniper rifle at close range just as easy as you can run n gun with a pistol, SMG... or shotgun (actually you are probably better off with a sniper rifle in urban combat since close distance is all the way up to 50(!) meters)

[MijRai]

Sniper rifles are my favorite weapon for snipers to take as close-quarters weapon

Compared to a shotgun; sniper rifles have higher accuracy, higher damage and more armor penetration. Only thing talking for shotguns compared to sniper rifles is that they are cheaper, but if you already invested into a sniper rifle then it will be more expansive to also get a shotgun.

In SR5 you can run n gun with a sniper rifle at close range just as easy as you can run n gun with a pistol, SMG... or shotgun (actually you are probably better off with a sniper rifle in urban combat since close distance is all the way up to 50(!) meters)

Except that doesn't work well in real life.  While yes, the game stats don't specify you can't do it, common sense says you're going to take penalties, if it's possible.  You ever try aiming a rifle with a high-power scope on it close-up?  It's pretty difficult.  Some people prefer to keep an eye on what makes sense, not just what is possible in the rules. 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

So yeah, Xenon is one of the reasons we have 'what penalties should I inflict on the stupid fraggin' git trying to sling around a sniper rifle in close-quarters combat' threads.  Let's not turn this one into one of those, with a bleating of 'but the rules don't say you can't!!' because no sane GM is going to let you get away with it.  (I guess Xenon's GMs aren't sane.)

MijRai, your only real option is the Remington 990 - clip-fed (8 in the clip, too!!) and only Restricted - relatively cheap, and a bit harder punch than the Defiance.  Since it's pretty much a standard single-barrel shotgun, you could negotiate with your GM in regards to sawing the sucker off.

[MijRai]

So yeah, Xenon is one of the reasons we have 'what penalties should I inflict on the stupid fraggin' git trying to sling around a sniper rifle in close-quarters combat' threads.  Let's not turn this one into one of those, with a bleating of 'but the rules don't say you can't!!' because no sane GM is going to let you get away with it.  (I guess Xenon's GMs aren't sane.)

MijRai, your only real option is the Remington 990 - clip-fed (8 in the clip, too!!) and only Restricted - relatively cheap, and a bit harder punch than the Defiance.  Since it's pretty much a standard single-barrel shotgun, you could negotiate with your GM in regards to sawing the sucker off.

Agreed, although I wasn't the one asking about shotguns.  I know the shotguns I like.

By the way, I think the 990 being a magazine-fed (c) weapon is probably a typo- if you look at the picture, it has a tube magazine (an (m) magazine), and in Fourth Edition it was an (m) loader as well.  Isn't it supposed to be the 'modern' upgrade to the Remington 870 anyways?

[ZeConster]

So yeah, Xenon is one of the reasons we have 'what penalties should I inflict on the stupid fraggin' git trying to sling around a sniper rifle in close-quarters combat' threads.

Actually, having penalties for that makes sense to me: I have 0 experience with real guns, but in FPS games I find it easier to aim with a pistol, shotgun or assault rifle in close ranges than I do with a sniper rifle.

[martinchaen]

As a veteran marksman who served 4 years in Afganistan I'll just weigh in on one thing here.

Yes, clearing rooms with a sniper rifle is unlikely to be very effective, but if you're the team sniper you shouldn't be doing that anyway. During CQB maneuvers the sniper and spotter more often than not provides overwatch for the rest of the team, covering exits and making sure the team isn't surprised y serving in an information gathering role and force multiplier as usual.

I carried a pistol as my sidearm during my service, and I never once fired it in combat. I also didn't clear houses on a regular basis. That being said, I have run breach and clear simulations with both my rifle (a Sako TRG-42 with a 28 inch barrel) and my pistol (an H&K .45 USP Expert). My experience is that it's perfectly possible to sight down the barrel (having first detached the scope, primarily so as not to damage it) of the rifle similar to how one would when shooting clay pidgeons with a shotgun.

Is it practical? No, not entirely. Is it impossible? Not at all. Do I think a system like Shadowrun, the combat rules of which are already massively abstracted, needs penalties for using traditionally "long" weapons in CQB operations? No.

Personal opinion only; if you're going for realism in Shadowrun you're going to have to change a whole lot of things, and this is something that would be pretty far down the list in my opinion.

And for those of you who've never fired a gun in real life, the good news is that TrackingPoint has you covered. Now you can be an expert marksman for just 30,000USD. :-)

[Lusis]

And for those of you who've never fired a gun in real life, the good news is that TrackingPoint has you covered. Now you can be an expert marksman for just 30,000USD. :-)

Wow that thing is stupid big. And to think the record for the most confirmed sniper kills was done with a bolt action and iron sights.

[martinchaen]

To be fair, that record was set in a somewhat target rich environment the likes of which we'll hopefully never see again.

Comparing a sniper from the WWII-era with a modern day sniper is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges; not a whole lot of overlap between the two in terms of training, equipment, organization, capabilities, and role. Though there are some similarities, modern day snipers fulfill a significantly different role because the circumstances of war have changed so dramatically.

That's not to say the likes of Simo Haya and Vasily Zaytsev weren't instrumental both on their respective battlefields and in terms of shsping future doctrine, but let's not forget that modern warfare simply doesn't involve millions upon untold millions of combatants the way they did during that particular time.

[Leevizer]

Simo Haya

*KRHM* Simo Häyhä

Go Finland!

[martinchaen]

Ok, so I misspelled his name. Ease up there fellah.

Simo was good, no doubt, but people like Zaytsev and even Hathcock had a much bigger impact on sniper doctrine. Anyway, this is getting rather off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

[Xenon]

We do use house rules to make pistols, smgs and shotguns "better" compared to assault rifles, sniper rifles and heavy weapons in CQB; I just pointed out that with core SR5 rules you are free to use a sniper rifle more efficient in CQB than a shotgun (except against multiple unarmored targets where shot ammo and choke-setting would come into play).

[KarmaInferno]

"You know, the enemy's always been terrified of noise, especially shotguns. With this big boy spitting out 250 rounds a minute, you tell me who's tolerating that. Absolutely zero. You know what? I trust you. I want you to meet my girlfriend. Omya Kaboom. When Omya's primer is struck, she sets off a miniature warhead that arms itself. And when that happens, anything that gets in my lady's way becomes instant red sauce and Jell-O."



I wonder how many requisions from field units came in for that shotgun after the movie came out?


-k

[Lusis]

"You know, the enemy's always been terrified of noise, especially shotguns. With this big boy spitting out 250 rounds a minute, you tell me who's tolerating that. Absolutely zero. You know what? I trust you. I want you to meet my girlfriend. Omya Kaboom. When Omya's primer is struck, she sets off a miniature warhead that arms itself. And when that happens, anything that gets in my lady's way becomes instant red sauce and Jell-O."



I wonder how many requisions from field units came in for that shotgun after the movie came out?


-k

Only the Marines use the AA-12.

[KarmaInferno]

Have they gotten field deployment yet? Last I heard they were still in procurement hell.


-k