[Erling]

So, I've read through several threads about capsule ammo, but there are still some issues which are not completely clear for me.

1. Can I fill capsule ammo with tear gas or pepper punch (contact vector toxin)? I assume I don't need DMSO in this case.

2. Can I fill capsule ammo with DMSO+non-vector toxin (e.g. narcoject, nausea gas)? Stolen Souls (p. 188) mentions that any compound mixed with DMSO becomes contact vector toxin.

3. p. 55 Run&Gun:
A single dose of chemical fills 5 rounds and must be purchased separately
Does that mean that single bullet brings a dose of toxin with lower Power?

4. Am I right assuming that armor doesn't affect hitting possibility (as distinct from how it's ruled for injection darts), and lousy grazing hit with capsule ammo will deliver toxin straightly onto full-armor guy's skin?

[Erling]

Something's wrong with my question? 

[martinchaen]

1. Yes. CS/Tear Gas and Pepper Punch would qualify as "a chemical", at least as far as I'm concerned.

The rounds listed are empty but can be filled with a chemical with a Logic + Armorer [Mental] (12, 1 minute) Extended Test for each round. A single dose of chemical fills 5 rounds and must be purchased separately.

2. Yes. All toxins would fulfill the "any compound" requirement of DMSO as far as I am concerned.

Any compound mixed with a dose of DMSO is deployable via the Contact vector (see p. 408, SR5).

3. As far as I can tell, that quote just means that a single dose of a chemical is sufficient for 5 rounds. I don't quite understand why they did this either as it implies less chemicals are needed for application by capsule rounds than is by disposable syringes or injection darts, but as there is no mention of a decrease in power it should be assumed, at least to my mind, that the stats of the chemical is unaltered.

4. Potentially, yes. By RAW, absolutely, as the rules for Capsule rounds on page 55 of Run & Gun are pretty explicit. Full Body Armor has the option of including a Chemical Seal, which would stop contact toxins from applying all-together, but otherwise it would seem that you are correct in your assessment.

Capsule rounds carry a liquid that, upon impact, splashes the target. Damage and AP are for the damage of the shot itself. A successful hit, including a Grazing Hit, means the capsule ruptures and the target faces damage from the chemical.

This one little rule makes capsule rounds, with the exception of the Light Pistol range they use regardless of which weapon they're fired from, superior in almost all ways, shapes, and forms, to other toxin application attacks including; coating a blade with a toxin, using injection arrows, bolts, or darts, slap patches, and disposable syringes. It's not clear from the text if the ammo is per 10 as in core or per round (though at 120¥ per round, EX-Explosive suddenly becomes a whole lot less attractive so it's somewhat fair to assume it's per 10), but the cost of Capsule rounds and their incredibly broad application makes them incredibly good choices.


Also, have some patience

You posted a question and didn't get an answer in less than 12 hours; sometimes things just take a little time...

[prionic6]

the cost of Capsule rounds and their incredibly broad application makes them incredibly good choices.

They are especially cheap because one dose of a chemical is good for 5 rounds without diminishing the effect. The Dart Pistol / Rifle doesn't compare very favorably, considering that you apparently need an Exotic Ranged Weapon skill.

[martinchaen]

prionic6
100% agreed. Add the armor-bypassing effect of Capsule Rounds on top of that, and you've got a really cheap and potent way of delivering chemicals. And this is why our table has banned the use of DMSO and the Squirtgun...

Light Pistol (200-1250¥)
10x Capsule Rounds (5¥)
2x Narcojet doses (100¥)

Ability to fire up narcojet rounds that are in some ways more effective than Stick-n-Shock: Priceless

If you really want to be sadistic, swap Narcojet for Rock (or Rocuronium) and physically paralyze your enemies so long as the Power isn't completely reduced to 0....

[Kincaid]

Yeah, they're very good.  With the change/clarification to staging damage with a Shock Glove, my main SRM character has switched to a capsule-loaded hold out cyber pistol as his melee equalizer. 

[Erling]

Also, have some patience

You posted a question and didn't get an answer in less than 12 hours; sometimes things just take a little time...

Oops, I thought there were 24 hours. Also I saw fellow runners posting in many other threads, so I supposed something went wrong with my English OK, I'll be more patient. And thanks for the answers.

100% agreed. Add the armor-bypassing effect of Capsule Rounds on top of that, and you've got a really potent way of delivering chemicals. And this is why our table has banned the use of DMSO and the Squirtgun...

This one little rule makes capsule rounds, with the exception of the Light Pistol range they use regardless of which weapon they're fired from, superior in almost all ways, shapes, and forms, to other toxin application attacks including; coating a blade with a toxin, using injection arrows, bolts, or darts, slap patches, and disposable syringes.

You have foreseen my next question Capsule ammo (both with DMSO and with of-the-shelf contact vector toxins) seem to be a really severe thing, so I was going to ask if there is a reason for using injection darts instead of capsule ammo (except for range and, possibly, gun report).

[prionic6]

I mean from a fluff viewpoint there is nothing wrong with a new technology like DMSO changing the order of usefulness of different things. I still don't like it because I think dart guns are cool and should be useful.

Now that I think of it, a dart gun should still be pretty much silent (uses pressured air) compared to a pistol.

[subgenius]

One thing to keep in mind however is the speed at which these toxins act. If you shoot someone with DSMO/narcojet or another immediate speed toxin, they don't make their toxin resistance roll until the end of that combat turn. That means the juiced up street sam might still get another couple passes to carve you up before he takes a nap... Even longer for things like pepper punch or tear gas that have a 1 combat turn speed (the end of the next combat turn). While the shock glove doesn't do as much damage, at least it happens NOW!

[Lucean]

You should totally be able to rule a diminishing effect into capsule rounds.
A dose is a dose for a reason. And if you split the amount over multiple bullets, only people wanting to abuse DMSO capsules would possibly disagree with lesser effects.
The dose makes the toxin!

For estimating how many bullets did actually hit you could roll the BF-denied defense dice and see if the target would have evaded. If the result doesn't change you could apply +1 bullet for 3-bullet-burst, +2 bullets for a 6-bullet-burst and +3 bullets for a 10-bullet-burst (like they did with the R&G optional narrow burst actions).

If I recall it right the german CRB makes the dart weapons use pistols/longarms instead of exotic weapons.

[prionic6]

If I recall it right the german CRB makes the dart weapons use pistols/longarms instead of exotic weapons.

Ah, now I know why I was surprised be the exotic skill. I've bought the english PDF when it came out and often use it for reference when I'm at the computer but I also have the german book in hard copy.

[Novocrane]

Is there a German pdf? Sounds like I should have one for reference.

*edit* TY, Prionic6

[prionic6]

http://www.pegasusdigital.de/product/123269/Shadowrun-5-Grundregelwerk

[Ryo]

3. As far as I can tell, that quote just means that a single dose of a chemical is sufficient for 5 rounds. I don't quite understand why they did this either as it implies less chemicals are needed for application by capsule rounds than is by disposable syringes or injection darts, but as there is no mention of a decrease in power it should be assumed, at least to my mind, that the stats of the chemical is unaltered.

This one little rule makes capsule rounds, with the exception of the Light Pistol range they use regardless of which weapon they're fired from, superior in almost all ways, shapes, and forms, to other toxin application attacks including; coating a blade with a toxin, using injection arrows, bolts, or darts, slap patches, and disposable syringes. It's not clear from the text if the ammo is per 10 as in core or per round (though at 120¥ per round, EX-Explosive suddenly becomes a whole lot less attractive so it's somewhat fair to assume it's per 10), but the cost of Capsule rounds and their incredibly broad application makes them incredibly good choices.

In defense of Capsule Rounds, you've forgotten to mention Gas Grenades, which covers a 10 meter radius in a given chemical for the cost of 40 nuyen + 1 dose. Capsule rounds let you hit 5 guys with 1 dose with good aim, but you can hit a hell of a lot more than 5 guys with 4,188.79 cubic meters of gas that hangs around for 4 rounds. Might even be able to argue dosing the same target more than once if they can't escape the gas cloud.

Now, gas works just as well for Contact vector as it does for Inhalation, although it isn't clear if its possible for you to turn any chemical into a gas. If you can, and Gas Grenades doesn't actually imply any restrictions, then Gas Grenades are the undefeated champion of maximizing toxin exposure. They even have better range, especially with a Grenade Launcher.

[RickDeckard]

We made a house rule for this.

You need 5 rounds (so long burst or short full auto with 6 rounds) to gain the effect of a full dose. 1 round is 20% effect which is negligible.

To hit exposed sk x in you get a Called Shot -4 modifier.