[psycho835]

what was his name? Something Black?

Believe you are referring to Mr. Darke.

What a guy.

As for ancient-enemies-that-could-be-stirring, my money's on whoever's behind Azzies (*cough*horrors*cough*). Just because Big D is pulling a Gandalf somewhere in deep metaplanes doesn't means that Blood Mage Gestalt/Smoking Mirror/whatever-the-hell-they-are-calling-themselves-these-days stopped TRYING to find a way to let them in.

Also, while I admit I don't really know much about Theran's, I think Atlantean Foundation should be mentioned with IE's rather than them. They ARE headed by Alachia after all.


And completely off-topic: with the mention of the Great Cthulhu, I suddenly remembered THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75hQwSJFuXg

[Eurydice]

I wonder if Hestaby would do the same thing Denairastas did now that she is an outcast. What did she do to get kicked out anyway?

[psycho835]

Of the top of my head, for revealing too much about dragon culture and relations and trying to involve those puny mortals.

[MijRai]

Yeah, after Alamais' defeat, there was a quite large dragon conclave to settle accounts in regards to dead dragon remains, SIrrurg, the attack on Lofwyr, Hestaby and the title of Loremaster.  A large number of dragon bodies, including Alamais, all the dead during the battle and Dzitblachen were properly taken care of as per dragon traditions, Sirrurg got imprisoned for 'multiple lifetimes' in metahuman terms after a long debate, the attack on Lofwyr was discovered to be by the Black Lodge (which is now at war with dragons; the dragons' goals are to wipe them off the face of the Earth) and Hestaby had her hoards and holdings taken and was exiled from the dragon community for breaching draconic conventions and acting 'improperly'.  After that, Lofwyr stood down from Loremaster, and his nominee, Celedyr, was put in place. 

[Michael Chandra]

I wonder if Hestaby would do the same thing Denairastas did now that she is an outcast. What did she do to get kicked out anyway?

Asked the UN to officially label Sirrurg a war criminal.

Her Voice got assassinated shortly after, seemingly by Lofwyr, so she went to war with him. Turned out it was Alamais though. You want to hear the kicker? If I recall correctly, it was Hestaby who managed to get the Dragon corpse back from Aztlan. But rather than taking that into account, that she was clearly trying to help not just metahumanity but also the dragons, they just banished her and killed off her followers for refusing to surrender her lair. They did acknowledge that Sirrurg was way out of line, but no, clearly Hestaby had to be banished for actually caring about Metahumanity. And THAT is why every non-pro-metahuman Dragon out there is our enemy. Because they exiled someone who actually cared for caring.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

In regards to Hestaby, they banished her for publically breaking ranks - not for trying to help out everyone involved.  I know they haven't given any sort of a timeline on redemption, but I'd bet my last nuyen (to take a saying from my 'published self') that she'll be able to gain redemption in some way or another.  The vote to banish her was not, after all, unanimous.

As for her followers, when your nation says, with however much reluctance, "I surrender," but you decide to actively and violently resist the occupying army, what the hell did you expect?  They had the opportunity to step aside; they decided not to.

[Eurydice]

I thought Burr-hide and Hestaby respected each other? Surely she would have known he didn't do it. There has to be more to that story.

You know I bet if metahumans were to help Ghostwalker get his lady a body again I'm sure he'd start caring like he used to and you'd have her on metahumanities side as well. Who needs Hestaby, Eh?
 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

"Burr-hide"??

[Eurydice]

Sorry, I mean Lofwyr. There's just a dragon that resembles him in Earthdawn called Burr-hide so. It's still a good nickname since Burrs are sort of gold/brown, spiky, and everywhere.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Lofwyr was a Great back then as well, so if Burr-hide was a Great - I don't recognize it, but hey, I wasn't that into ED - that's a possibility.  He's known mostly as 'Gold-Master' among the dragons, as far as I know, and sometimes referred to as 'Gold-Snout' among the shadows.

[Eurydice]

Ah. In one of the 1st or 2nd ed. Earthdawn source books you meet Burr-hide when the party falls into a pit in Vasgothia, kills a half horror (Ulk-men) they stumble upon thinking it was a horror. Then they find out it was just an indentured servant working the gold mine. Burr-hide sends you on a ridiculously risky quest to make up for killing his worker. Has to be Golden-Snout.
I bet that gold is the reason He and Alamais didn't get along.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Honestly?  Pretty sure that's a different dragon.  Like I said, I'm not any sort of expert on the ED names of SR dragons, but I sure don't recall 'Burr-hide' in the list, especially not in reference to Lofwyr.

[Crimsondude]

To my knowledge, Lofwyr never appeared in FASA's Earthdawn products. He was always just Alamaise's brother lairing north of Barsaive.

Also, the reason they didn't get along has at its core been simply that they were brothers, and Alamais always resented Lofwyr for being the older and superior of the two (which would explain his abandoning the north for Barsaive).

Burr-Hide doesn't seem to describe Lofwyr's appearance. He's a sleek, golden dragon (Hence the name Gold Master). The name burr hide suggests something else.

That said, Lofwyr did/does respect Hestaby. He is darwinian, but he is also a wyrm of honor. Hestaby sullied her honor, and had to be punished. It is a testament that he even contemplated and consulted others as to her fate, when he was much less troubled in punishing Sirrurg and Alamais.

[Eurydice]

It's just a guess based on personality, color, and location. It does say in ED Alamais had a brother in Vasgothia who chased him out and that's why they had bad blood but there isn't any reference to Lofwyr and there could have been other siblings.

[Crimsondude]

Ah, yes. That's the name of the land where Lofwyr lived.

Was Burr-Hide gold? Because that name seems more likely to describe Kaltenstein or some other German dragon.