[tequila]

http://cdn.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/E-CAT27003E_SG-Errata.pdf?4713c7

[SmilinIrish]

Well, they nerfed commanding voice again.  The Stolen Souls (overpriced) version of commanding voice remains.  The Street Grimoire version was competely changed.  Name, effect, everything.

[jim1701]

The removed the ability to choose an additional power from Beast's Way.  Now I have to redo my character again in chummer.  Dammit!   

[Sir_Prometheus]

Ok I'm glad they finally did this, but this is less than half the errata needed. They fixed the spells, but didn't change or correct any of adept powers besides commanding voice.  Ways are still stupid.

Unless you really think counter strike should cost twice as much as riposte, for some reason.

[Namikaze]

I like the direction of the changes.  It seems like it's a rebalancing pass more than anything else.  As Prometheus pointed out, there is still a lot more that needs to be errata'd, but hopefully this won't be the last time we get an update to the material.

[Michael Chandra]

Bah. *houserules a (Paracritter) Form spell for Awakened NPCs*

Yes I actually need to do that to make my plot work. -_- I'm fine with the less-powerful form though, where the attributes aren't all horribly overrated.

[firebug]

I was really expecting something less than 20 Karma for the Ways.  I find the cost for Mystic Adept especially amusing.  With my build, where I needed Mentor Spirit, I could either get Magician's Way and save 1 PP, or buy the extra PP (I could only afford 5 with the two qualities) and then have 15 more Karma to spend.  Yeah I'd "save" another .5 (at most) PP if I later improved my MAG by 2 but...  It just doesn't feel worth it for Mystic Adepts.

I assume when you're building an adept and may want things like martial arts and the like, dropping the 20 karma is difficult too.  Maybe not as bad.

[Sir_Prometheus]

None of the ways are worth it, period.  Consider that Mentor spirit typically gets you .5 PP. 

You probably shouldn't have a Quality that costs 20 Karma.  It's simply too big a chunk of things at chargen, and 40 pts is stupid after chargen.  (and then they hedge this, but only sorta, with this retcon at GM discretion thingie....wut?)  They probably should be a quality, period, and 20 is too much, period.  Also, having the benefit be so variable (1/2 of one level, which varies imensely) is absolutely crazy. 

The fact an adept has to pay for Way to get certain metamagics, enhancements is also stupid....mages just pick one they want to grab per initiation.  What's wrong with that for adepts? 

The Way system is so wrong, I can't think of anything right about it. 

Drain codes and other spell weirdness probably should have been a priority, becuase they were jsut the most obvious fix.  But if you're just saving adept power re-balancing and Way errata for another pass......please tell us that.  Cuz otherwise I'm worried you think it's just fine the way it is. 

[Digital_Viking]

20 karma = 10 BP, which was the Way price in 4th as I remember. And given the PP discount is not outrageous in most games, outside of Street level.  IMO of course

[Imveros]

yup if you arent making your karma back in PP discounts, you're in the wrong way. Also it injects a little flavor into your old boring physad. Sure some of the ways are better than others, but that doesn't make them all worthless. To the right player the ways are not only a nice bonus but an entire character concept! I've been working on a few way of the beast adepts myself.

[MijRai]

The Way of the Warrior is very useful for a combat-oriented type as well; halving all penalties from War/Violence aspected areas?  I'll take it!

[Imveros]

i just like the thought of keratin control with the two karma claws, from way of the beast, to have distinctive style and have a lion's mane and claws. Also the option to F with the decker after his first VR session, *go from clean cut to hobo beard asap and be like "Drek chummer do you know how long you've been in there?!"

There is RP gold in every way. There may just not be as much power game mileage as others would like

[Sir_Prometheus]

20 karma = 10 BP, which was the Way price in 4th as I remember. And given the PP discount is not outrageous in most games, outside of Street level.  IMO of course

I don't think that's true, no.  At least, in terms of qualities.  For one thing, you were allowed 35 BPs of qualities, and now 25 karma pts of qualities.  If anything, 1 karma is worht several BPs.

yup if you arent making your karma back in PP discounts, you're in the wrong way. Also it injects a little flavor into your old boring physad. Sure some of the ways are better than others, but that doesn't make them all worthless. To the right player the ways are not only a nice bonus but an entire character concept! I've been working on a few way of the beast adepts myself.

Loosely, a PP is worth 13 or 16 karma.  It's hard to get more than .75 PP from a Way.  I think you can get up to 1.5 in certain very limited circumstance, but that's jut the point, it's very limited, only works if you build your character in a very particular way.  And I don't think too many people will be able to start with it, so, it's really 40 karma.

It's fine if you want to do it for character reasons.  But game mechanically, it's awful.

[Imveros]

There is RP gold in every way. There may just not be as much power game mileage as others would like

Expecting something to be mechanically good and not overpriced is not "wanting a lot of 'power game mileage'".

I apologize, that was poor wording on my part. Power gaming does carry with it negative meanings i didn't intend at writing. What i mean is that not everything to needs to be equally effective all the time. The core book has plenty of positive qualities that aren't as good as others. Granted i don't know how ways worked in 4th, but i like niche items and they have value to the right build.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I don't know about equal, but it helps a lot if all the powers have about the same power level per PP --other wise you wind up with good and bad choices, and in the end, if you want to do a something characterful, you wind up being less powerful than someone who made more optimal, min/max choices.  I'd prefer that doesn't  be the way of it.