NEWS

[SR4-20th] to [SR5]

  • 41 Replies
  • 8885 Views

Dr Adder

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 17
« on: <10-03-14/0819:54> »
Hi,

i'm searching for  a post that explains the main differences beetwen SR4 and SR5, and how to translate Characters.
We have recently bougth all the many books in SR4-20th, many hardcovered, the last in PDF, and we gonna play vintage 2nd and 3rd ed campaigns.
So i wonder if it's worth using SR5 instead of SR4-20th ?
« Last Edit: <10-03-14/0854:32> by Dr Adder »

jim1701

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1070
« Reply #1 on: <10-03-14/1300:12> »
There is a conversion guide you can download for free.  I haven't used it but it's free so how bad can it be?  ;D

http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3207

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #2 on: <10-03-14/1317:11> »
Don't (never ever) use the Conversion guide !!
You can ( and should) simply use the SR4A Chars ! You only have to calculate the Limits , thats all.
only Equipment has to be converted (Weapons damage x 1.5 ,add acc thats all, Armor highest Value x 1.5 thats all)
Decks and RCCs have to be introduced and 'ware (essence cost) has to be recalculated ,but thats all !

with a much more simple Dance
Medicineman
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #3 on: <10-03-14/1319:12> »
Don't (never ever) use the Conversion guide !!
You can ( and should) simply use the SR4A Chars ! You only have to calculate the Limits , thats all.
only Equipment has to be converted (Weapons damage x 1.5 ,add acc thats all, Armor highest Value x 1.5 thats all)
Decks and RCCs have to be introduced and 'ware (essence cost) has to be recalculated ,but thats all !

with a much more simple Dance
Medicineman

And skills need to totally redone, and don't convert weapons like that.  Find the 5th edition version and roll with it.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #4 on: <10-03-14/1344:58> »
Quote
And skills need to totally redone, and don't convert weapons like that.  Find the 5th edition version and roll with it.
Especially Skills should NOT  (!! ) be converted . Since Starting Skills (in SR4A as well as in 5) are topped at 6 (7 with Talented) they shouldn't be changed at all.
If You use the conversion rules You'd get Chars that start with a Skill of 8,10 or even 12.
 
Weapons and Armor ; Y ou could either use the stats of equivalent SR5 Weapons or raise the DV by 1.5 (f.E. You want to convert the Colt Manhunter you could use the Stats of the Ares Pred V)

with a nonconverted Dance
Medicineman

 
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #5 on: <10-03-14/1402:22> »
Especially Skills should NOT  (!! ) be converted . Since Starting Skills (in SR4A as well as in 5) are topped at 6 (7 with Talented) they shouldn't be changed at all.
If You use the conversion rules You'd get Chars that start with a Skill of 8,10 or even 12.

Umm...honestly, if a character had the absolute maximum rating in a skill, the character should have at least close to the new maximum after conversion. It's only fair.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9944
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #6 on: <10-03-14/1407:02> »
Hi,

i'm searching for  a post that explains the main differences beetwen SR4 and SR5, and how to translate Characters.
We have recently bougth all the many books in SR4-20th, many hardcovered, the last in PDF, and we gonna play vintage 2nd and 3rd ed campaigns.
So i wonder if it's worth using SR5 instead of SR4-20th ?
It depends.

If someone wants to play a tweaked Rigger, that's not really possible right now. They are viable characters, but the vulnerable drones combined with lack of customization can make this real tricky.

Deckers can be done, Technomancers are complicated beasts, but if your players really want to dig into how the Matrix works, we don't have the book for that yet.

The special metavariants aren't in SR5 yet.




Leaving that aside, SR5 does have some really important changes that would lead me to suggest you use SR5.

First of all, you no longer can attack twice per Action Phase. This made balance between Street Samurais and Melee+Magic rather complicated. Now everyone gets 1 attack per IP, which also helps decrease the die-rolls needed and makes it easier to balance out the different builds. There's no need for massive-damage Melee characters anymore since they can still get a decent damage output without having to beat 2 attacks.

Defense is dual-statted now, so people actually got a shot at avoiding getting hit. In return damage has gone up significantly but so has Armor, meaning that IF hit it's more lethal. Body-limitations on Armor were removed, so mages aren't horribly squishy anymore.

Initiative got switched back to using initiative dice instead of IPs, and an Initiative-number system. This means even non-augmented characters got a shot at a second IP. It also allows for special options that cost you just a bit of Initiative, which may be harmless but also may be very dangerous, when it costs you an IP or makes you go after an enemy.

Direct combat spells aren't the main killer they were in SR4 anymore, instead they become very viable options versus targets that are either really hard to hit or have way too much damage.

Hardened Armor got changed, now a Spirit isn't either invulnerable or down in a single hit.

And last there's the introduction of limits, and the raised skillcaps. The limits are a nice punishment to munchkins, forcing them to balance their characters out more or pay a price for it. The raised skillcaps after chargen make it possible to actually vary both PCs and NPCs past the boring "everyone has either 4 or 6".

Lastly, Priority may be restrictive in the character builds, but it helps prevent choice paralysis, allowing for faster chargen.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #7 on: <10-03-14/1416:21> »
Especially Skills should NOT  (!! ) be converted . Since Starting Skills (in SR4A as well as in 5) are topped at 6 (7 with Talented) they shouldn't be changed at all.
If You use the conversion rules You'd get Chars that start with a Skill of 8,10 or even 12.

Umm...honestly, if a character had the absolute maximum rating in a skill, the character should have at least close to the new maximum after conversion. It's only fair.

Hmmm, so one SR4A Char with a Skill of 6 gets converted to Skill 12
but his "Brother" from SR5 with a Skill of 6 stays with his Skill of 6 ?
seems not right to me
Thats why I'm against the conversion rules.
And if its a new Char he should not be converted at all but simpley remade within the new SR5 Rules.

HokaHey
Medicineman
 
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #8 on: <10-03-14/1427:44> »
Especially Skills should NOT  (!! ) be converted . Since Starting Skills (in SR4A as well as in 5) are topped at 6 (7 with Talented) they shouldn't be changed at all.
If You use the conversion rules You'd get Chars that start with a Skill of 8,10 or even 12.

Umm...honestly, if a character had the absolute maximum rating in a skill, the character should have at least close to the new maximum after conversion. It's only fair.

Hmmm, so one SR4A Char with a Skill of 6 gets converted to Skill 12
but his "Brother" from SR5 with a Skill of 6 stays with his Skill of 6 ?
seems not right to me
Thats why I'm against the conversion rules.
And if its a new Char he should not be converted at all but simpley remade within the new SR5 Rules.

HokaHey
Medicineman

Yes, the SR4A character with a skill of 6 should get converted to skill rating 10 (the actual converted value). This is because the conversion rules are assuming a character with such a skill rank to have gotten there through advancement rather than taking number crunching for 'efficiency' into account.

Conversion rules should not be taking into account what people who game the system do in character generation.
« Last Edit: <10-03-14/1434:13> by All4BigGuns »
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #9 on: <10-03-14/1442:45> »
Quote
This is because the conversion rules are assuming a character with such a skill rank to have gotten there through advancement rather than taking number crunching for 'efficiency' into account.
Number Crunching ?
Its quite easy to get a starting Char with a Skill of 6
There's no need to Crunch any Numbers
And the "Advancement" of a Char that starts with a Skill of 5 and Ends with a Skill of 6 ....is a mere 12 Karma
which is 1 big or 2 standard Runs (hardly any crunching too ;) )

Quote
Conversion rules should not be taking into account what people who game the system do in character generation.
Sorry, but I don't understand what You want to say :)

Hough!
Medicineman
« Last Edit: <10-03-14/1446:39> by Medicineman »
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #10 on: <10-03-14/1445:35> »
Quote
Conversion rules should not be taking into account what people who game the system do in character generation.
Sorry, but I don't understand what You want to say :)

Hough!
Medicineman

It's really quite simple. The players who got their skill rating to 6 through advancement should not be all that far away from the new maximum after conversion just because someone else went the 'mathematical efficiency' route when building their new character.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #11 on: <10-03-14/1450:20> »
OK, I think differently and I don't consider 12 Karma such a big advancement (Startskill 5 ---> Endskill 6 )
And Chars that have reached a Skill of 6 in SR4A payed the same amount of Karma as a Char from SR5 that have reached a Skill of 6.

with the same Dance
Medicineman
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #12 on: <10-03-14/1453:01> »
OK, I think differently and I don't consider 12 Karma such a big advancement (Startskill 5 ---> Endskill 6 )
And Chars that have reached a Skill of 6 in SR4A payed the same amount of Karma as a Char from SR5 that have reached a Skill of 6.

with the same Dance
Medicineman

You're again only taking into account the 'mathematical efficiency' players. Those players (no matter the number of them) that started at 2 or 3 and attained skill rating 6 in one or more skills after quite some time of play should not have to suffer just because of the others.

And, honestly, that's part of my beef with how the errata affected Mystic Adepts in the new edition. It does not substantially hinder the 'efficiency' crowd, but it severely affects those who don't do such things.
« Last Edit: <10-03-14/1454:40> by All4BigGuns »
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #13 on: <10-03-14/1517:49> »
Quote
You're again only taking into account the 'mathematical efficiency' players. Those players (no matter the number of them) that started at 2 or 3 and attained skill rating 6 in one or more skills after quite some time of play should not have to suffer just because of the others.

Sorry , but what You're saying(writing) makes no sense to me .
I think we're talking about different subjects.
I think that there is no difference in the Advancement of raising Skills in SR4A and SR5
and therefore Chars should have the same Skill too
You are talking about  'mathematical efficiency' players.

and I don't understand:
 
Quote
Those players (no matter the number of them) that started at 2 or 3 and attained skill rating 6 in one or more skills after quite some time of play should not have to suffer just because of the others.
Why and how they're supposed to suffer
This makes no sense to me (too)

HokaHey
Medicineman
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
« Reply #14 on: <10-03-14/1604:39> »
Don't (never ever) use the Conversion guide !!
You can ( and should) simply use the SR4A Chars ! You only have to calculate the Limits , thats all.
only Equipment has to be converted (Weapons damage x 1.5 ,add acc thats all, Armor highest Value x 1.5 thats all)
Decks and RCCs have to be introduced and 'ware (essence cost) has to be recalculated ,but thats all !

with a much more simple Dance
Medicineman
I seem to remember SR5 allowing for more 'solid' characters, though.

And, honestly, that's part of my beef with how the errataintended rules affected Mystic Adepts in the new edition. It does not substantially hinder the 'efficiency' crowd, but it severely affects those who don't do such things.
Fixed that for you.