[Imveros]

I've been perusing a lot of posts of this board, and I've been seeing a lot of street scum level games or characters posted on these forums. That's not to say that I don't see the normal level of character generation, but I've also seen a lot of street scum. My question is, do you guys tend to see that as a better starting level for characters? Is it a preference thing, an issue of balance, or just that experienced players tend to need the extra challenge? I'm getting ready to GM my first game in SR5 (and I haven't played in about 3 years), and one of my two confirmed players has never played Shadowrun. Thanks for any input guys

I also think people have been playing standard gen games for awhile now and are just looking for something different. A new angle and new adventure options to go with it

[iamfanboy]

My issue with the low powered options in the BBB, their only adjustments they make is to resources and gear availability. Bringing down dice pools in general would have an impact on all characters equally vs current methods.

I think I'll put some work into this and make a more in depth post on the process, it will probably involve an entire priority table.

You're only looking at "Street Level".  Street Scum changes it so rather than assigning ABDCE, you pick between BCDEE or CCDDE.  This effects all the character archetypes and as a result lowers dice pools a bit as opposed to just changing resources, and doesn't touch gear availability at all.

where is this Street Scum thing listed? I was getting it confused with the Street Level as well; but Street Scum intrigues me... is it just standard creation (normal Karma and all that) past the different choosing of priorities?

[8-bit]

Yes, everything else but Priorities is normal.

The rules for it are located on page 354 of the Core Book.

[Glyph]

I'm aware of the difference.

Even then it doesn't reduce relevant dice pools significantly. All it does is reduce the range of skills characters have access to. Lowering the starting skill cap to 4 would keep them from being hyper specialized to the point where they are equivalent to normal starting characters in their chosen role.

Keep in mind that a skill of 4 in SR5 is much different than a skill of 4 in SR4.  The Professionalism rating: 1 gangers and street scum have pistols skill of 4; they have 18 points of Attributes and 22 points in skills.  If you limit PCs to this level, then keep in mind that this means an even fight with the near-weakest of opponents is a 50/50 proposition - which will generally mean dead runners in short order.

That's my biggest problem with the low-power/street scum rules.  The game just doesn't scale that well at the lower levels, because they made low-level mooks more of a threat.

[iamfanboy]

So what's the real difference between the Street-Level Play rules on 64 and the Street Scum rules on 354, from a practical standpoint? It seems that Street-Level Play emphasizes skills and/or magic a lot more, whereas the Street Scum could let a player start as a decently-cybered sammy or decker (with potentially 275k to equip themselves), but cuts down on the skills and attributes - which means spending your starting Karma on those instead of Qualities, or making sure that the group itself is tightly-knit with all the important areas covered.

In fact, it really feels like the Street Scum is better balanced than Street-Level Play, because picking a magic character is a no-brainer in SLP, but for SS you really have to choose what's important and what's not.

I... like the Street Scum rules. A lot.

Why the DEVIL is there Street Level and Primer Runner rules in the chargen section, and Street Scum and High Life in the GM section, when the second rules are much better balanced?

I love Shadowrun, and 5e is interesting enough to actually make me want to run it (instead of 2e/3e which I've been doing for, oh my god, over twenty years now), but maaan... this book NEEDED nastier editors. Not just for minor things, but major things too.

[8-bit]

The difference between Street-level and Street Scum (outside of story reasons) are these.

- Street Level assumes that you are well skilled/trained etc, but haven't had enough jobs to acquire Karma and Money. Most people don't afford 300,000+ nuyen in 'ware without some runs under their belt.
- Street Scum assumes that, because of your situation and environment, you are not as skilled/trained, but you still have experience in the "real" world. Hence the karma and Priority arrangement.

The practical difference between them is that Street Level itself is horridly unbalanced and favors Adepts, Magicians, and Technomancers (but not Mystic Adepts) over everything else. Street Scum, on the other hand, is pretty well balanced, although some archetypes still have trouble fitting everything in. Street Scum does a much better job at making Shadowrun feel like Street Level was supposed to; characters who are just starting out and still honing their abilities.

So, yeah, most people like Street Scum a lot. Also, yes, Street Scum and High Life (which I really like, except they need to bump up nuyen levels to compensate people who depend on 'ware as opposed to magic) needed to be in the Chargen section, and they are really much better balanced.

[Tai-Pan]

I'm aware of the difference.

Even then it doesn't reduce relevant dice pools significantly. All it does is reduce the range of skills characters have access to. Lowering the starting skill cap to 4 would keep them from being hyper specialized to the point where they are equivalent to normal starting characters in their chosen role.

Keep in mind that a skill of 4 in SR5 is much different than a skill of 4 in SR4.  The Professionalism rating: 1 gangers and street scum have pistols skill of 4; they have 18 points of Attributes and 22 points in skills.  If you limit PCs to this level, then keep in mind that this means an even fight with the near-weakest of opponents is a 50/50 proposition - which will generally mean dead runners in short order.

That's my biggest problem with the low-power/street scum rules.  The game just doesn't scale that well at the lower levels, because they made low-level mooks more of a threat.

If you're running a game at these levels youre not using goons out of the book. Though that is one thing I've found sorely lacking in the last  two editions is alot of the lethality is gone.

[Glyph]

The goons out of the book run the gamut from knuckle-dragging thugs who work for groups like Humanis, to elite special forces.  Obviously, you won't use the latter against runners who are just starting out.  But if you have to tone down the Professionalism rating: 1 and 2 goons, then it might be a sign that the characters are too weak.  It's one thing to be street scum, but I still envision hard-bitten gangers, alcoholic ex-cops, junkyard-scavenging techies, and cocky wiz-gang kids - not squatters or back-alley muggers.

It is magic and technology that give runners their edge.  If you want more starting-level runners, I would recommend using standard character creation rules, but limiting Magic, Resonance, and resources to priority C or lower (with the added caveat that you can only spend metatype points on Edge, not Magic or Resonance).  The runners will still be tough, just leaner and hungrier.