[Quatar]

Hi fellow GMs,

I like the SR world, but I've never GMed it. I've GMed some Pathfinder before, so not completely new to it, but I'm considering giving SR a try now. I've played a few games (though most didn't last more than a couple sessions).
So, I'm kinda completely new to this and from what I've seen SR holds a few more pitfalls than PF does.

So, here I am, with a few questions to the more experienced GMs.
Mostly it's just about gathering opinions, half the questions probably don't have any "right answers". But you've been doing this longer than me, so I hope to profit from your experience here.
The game would be run online on Roll20, and I'll find players when the game is setup so "Ask your players what they like" is not a good answer unfortunately.

a) Should I let the players make normal experienced Runners (normal chargen) or use Street Level or even Street Scum rules during my first game?

b) Are there any pre-generated missions I should take a look at? I'm not sure I feel comfortable making up all the stuff on my own, at first at least. So having something to hold on to would definitely help. I know there are tons of missions, too many maybe. So looking for recommendations about any you can recommend for a new GM?

c) Kinda ties into the last question, but any City you would recommend? I might be from Germany, but I've only been to Berlin once in my life, and that's been years ago (not to mention the SR version is quite different). So if it's a european city or US one, I most likely don't have any first hand experience with it, so that part shouldn't be a factor. Just looking for something that's easy to get in. Is Seattle good for that, or is there actually TOO MUCH material about it that I would get lost in it and something else might work better?

d) Since it's my first game, do you think I should aim for equally inexperienced players? It would have the advantage that we can all learn at the same time. Disadvantage of course would be that there's nobody there to help with more complicated matters. On the other hand, there's nobody there who constantly knows more than the GM either.

e) Which Edition would you say is easier to get into? 4th or 5th?

f) Possibly depends on your answer to e) but would you say I should allow all the books and what comes with it, or would you restrict certain things from certain books? Personally I'm not a huge fan of the Metavariants, I've no idea how to handle them RP-wise, so I'll probably ask players to not be one. I'm also not perfectly up to date on Matrix and Magic, but I can hardly ban those, can I?

g) Any interesting houserules you think make the game better/easier or that fixes something obviously wrong? I don't want too many of those obviously, but a few would be ok.

h) Any other tips in general that you think a new GM of Shadowrun should know? Any pitfalls or traps that I should be wary of?

[MijRai]

Well, as a guy who's been in (and is running) some games through Skype/Roll20, I have some advice you might like;

First off, I suggest asking around here (specifically the Looking for Games part of the forum) for players.  Lot of folks are looking to get their Shadowrun fix. 

As far as points go...

A.  I'd suggest plain Character Creation first, with Street Scum second.  Street Scum is better if you're going for a more specific feel for your games, either a lower, grittier build-up or an attempt to give your characters more room for growth and development.  Standard gets the bases covered quite well.

B.  The Missions for 5th Edition is a living campaign that is receiving updates and more shenanigans pretty frequently; I would suggest that if you want a pre-made one.  Splintered State is one of them, and I'm actually in a Splintered State session now. 

C.  Seattle is sort of the knee-jerk 'prime city' for Shadowrun, and Splintered State starts there.  A number of Missions take people to Chicago, which is a pretty fun city, if you like insect spirits, anarchy, stuff like that.  As far as Seattle goes, it's easy enough to disregard some fluff to get what you want, or adjust things as necessary. 

D.  I suggest getting one or two experienced players, for the Matrix side of the game at least.  I personally can't get a grip on that (I sort of despise it at times), and having folks who know it and can explain stuff to me helps a lot. 

E.  Fourth has more out currently (dozens of books), and is a finished system.  Fifth is still in the works, with a good bit of streamlining from Fourth's occasional bulk.  It's a preference thing, partly, and whether or not you want to use a lot of the stuff Fourth currently has to offer.

F.  I'd allow all the books that are out for Fifth Edition, myself.  There's nothing notably cheesy.  As far as metavariants go, I'd allow them; it's an interesting thing to me.  As far as handling them RP-wise, they're still people, from wherever they are from; they might just get some odd looks or more than the usual amount of scorn from whatever side they resemble least (the fomorian trolls look more human, so other trolls look at them as human-posers, or the oni orks get hated even more because they're so inhuman looking.  As far as banning magic or the matrix goes...  I've debated banning the Matrix, myself.  As I said earlier, my grip on the rules is funky, and I sort of hate it.  If one does, you basically just hand-wave Matrix concerns with the NPC team decker or a hired hand.  It's useful if you want certain things to happen, but it's not always the right thing for some people. 

G.  If you want a functional rigger, I suggest tracking down the drone/vehicle house-rules that are on this forum; at the moment, a lot of drones can be shot down with a pistol.  Besides that, there isn't too much that's pernicious to the game. 

H.  My suggestion is always leave a way out in your scenarios, at least at first.  If you're new, sometimes it's hard to know the best balance for a situation, so letting your players be able to jet out of there if you messed up some numbers is a good idea.  Such escape routes are pretty superfluous (or even bad for the game) once you get the hang of it. 

Anyways, best of luck to you and your game!

[Walks Through Walls]

Quatar welcome aboard. I've been playing for quite a while running the games I'm in for years now as well as working at Gencon. Here are my thoughts on your questions.

A) I would go with normal character creation especially if all the players are new too. This will allow them to do things and is the balance that most of the premade adventures are written for.

B) As MiRai mentioned the mission living world has good number of adventures, but depending on which edition you decide on this could limit your available adventures. There are two "adventure packs" of convention adventures from previous years available. One is called Firing Line and I forget the second off hand. Each has 4 adventures in it and have stats for both 4th and 5th edition.

C) Seattle has the most out about it. I don't know what cities the German books have available, but I believe there is a "central" city there also. Many adventures are set around Seattle also.

D) Both experienced and inexperienced players have their advantages. As far as this goes my recommendation is find players who enjoy the type of game you run/want to run. Shadowrun can go from very stealth and black hat to guns a blazing so making sure you and the players want/enjoy the same thing is important.

E) 5th has fewer exceptions to the rules and uses the same basic mechanic across all facets of the game. I like it better now that I have learned it.

F) There aren't many books out for 5th so it is already kind of limited. maybe start with the core then add Street Grimore (magic), and Run&Gun if you want to make choices easier or allow for the addition of new items down the road.

G) I don't currently use any house rules so can't help there.

H) The game is deadly. A small tweak can have massive unexpected consequences. Remember that the player can burn edge to escape death also and remind them of this especially when their character is on the wrong side of bad dice karma. Be flexible about things. If you don't know the rule and can't find it quickly make a judgment and keep the game moving. Look it up later for the next time and if you were wrong let everyone know so they know what to expect next time.

Hope all of this helps

[Reaver]

Some general tips:

"Its not you VS the players"
Be fair to your players. You are there to tell a story and give a voice to the background. The players are your protagonists. With out the characters, there is no story.

Unlike pathfinder, where at a glance you can tell if a monster is stronger then the players, in SR it is much harder to determine an appropriate threat to challenge your players. Start small and build up.... if your players are stuggling, you may want to consider having the opposition 'fail' a few checks...

"Forward to Victory!"
As with all games, the rules can get confusing, or situations that PCs get into can make the rules... unclear.

Have a good understanding of the basic rules before play begins... and don't be afraid to make a rule judgement call to keep the game moving forward. Make a note of the rule in question and go back and look it up after the game. Start the next session off with a revisit of the rule, the situation, and what you determined on the spot. This way, you all learn from the mistake, and can move forward together.

"Keep it simple, stupid."
Probably the biggest and worst mistakes a starting GM can make is to design an ultra convoluted story, or a "world rests in the balance" game. For many players and GMs, this is a huge pitfall.

Start small. Think small. Then build up from there. It allows you to get a feel for your players and what they expect. This approach can also save you a tonne of tylenol. No point it designing a huge, world saving altruistic adventure if your players are playing a bunch of glorified douche bags

There is nothing wrong with having no base direction for your campaign other then generic runs while you figure out your players, characters, and what direction they are taking their characters in.

"Snowflakes are not special"
When first starting out. Its a good idea to limit character options to the baseline. (With 5e, this is less a problem as optional character choices JUST came out in Run Faster. )
Generally speaking, many 'optional' character choices do nothing but cause resentment and hurt feelings in new groups. Such Snowflakes should be left to established groups. And even then, expect hurt feelings. (Can't count the number of times i caved to my personal 'No Snowflakes' rule, only to watch that snowflake implode in the first 5 minutes of player time.... just not worth the drama.)

"The name of the game is..."
FUN!! That is why we play games right? Remember to enjoy yourselves and have a good time. And don't let rules get in the way of that!

[Spooky]

As for my two creds, when you are starting out, keep it simple and short. As you get more comfortable, then you can get more complex. If you want it, I can send you a simple mission that presents a good idea of the pitfalls of SR. Fair warning, though, both runner teams that I have put through this mission hated it, though for different reasons. As for edition choice, I would suggest fifth, because there is so much less to learn for you, and for the players to ask for.

[Quatar]

Hi

Merry Christmas everyone and thank you all for your answers. Been really helpful.

Well, as a guy who's been in (and is running) some games through Skype/Roll20, I have some advice you might like;

First off, I suggest asking around here (specifically the Looking for Games part of the forum) for players.  Lot of folks are looking to get their Shadowrun fix. 

I plan on announcing it here as well as Roll20 when the time is right. May well be a couple of weeks still.

As far as points go...

A.  I'd suggest plain Character Creation first, with Street Scum second.  Street Scum is better if you're going for a more specific feel for your games, either a lower, grittier build-up or an attempt to give your characters more room for growth and development.  Standard gets the bases covered quite well.

So either normal or straight down to Scum? Street level is not a good "middle ground"? I admit I never played Street Level, so I can't say one way or the other, it just surprises me.

B.  The Missions for 5th Edition is a living campaign that is receiving updates and more shenanigans pretty frequently; I would suggest that if you want a pre-made one.  Splintered State is one of them, and I'm actually in a Splintered State session now. 

Where can I find the 5th Edition Missions? Can find 4th on drivethrough, but not 5th.

Also looking at the Splintered State review there, it says it's supposed to be an introduction adventure (which is great and what I'm looking for) but the reviewers think it might actually be overwhelming for new GMs and Players. Opinions? Were those just theoretical concerns that don't hold up in actual play, or is it true?

D.  I suggest getting one or two experienced players, for the Matrix side of the game at least.  I personally can't get a grip on that (I sort of despise it at times), and having folks who know it and can explain stuff to me helps a lot. 

Good point, might consider that.

As far as banning magic or the matrix goes...  I've debated banning the Matrix, myself.  As I said earlier, my grip on the rules is funky, and I sort of hate it.  If one does, you basically just hand-wave Matrix concerns with the NPC team decker or a hired hand.  It's useful if you want certain things to happen, but it's not always the right thing for some people. 

That might actually be a good idea as well, and probably less headache inducing for a first run.
I was playing the decker in another game (and I still don't know the rules, funny, huh?), and it was always kind of a minigame between me and the GM when I was in the Matrix, while everyone else was just sitting around, being bored.

G.  If you want a functional rigger, I suggest tracking down the drone/vehicle house-rules that are on this forum; at the moment, a lot of drones can be shot down with a pistol.  Besides that, there isn't too much that's pernicious to the game. 

I'll get on searching those drone houserules right away. That drones are so damn fragile and easy to kill annoyed me before as player.

D) Both experienced and inexperienced players have their advantages. As far as this goes my recommendation is find players who enjoy the type of game you run/want to run. Shadowrun can go from very stealth and black hat to guns a blazing so making sure you and the players want/enjoy the same thing is important.

I'm not sure all the players know what they want, so that can be tough.
A recent game I was in was announced as "Much more black trenchcoat than pink mohawk" but what all the other players did was much more pink mohawk to me. Like nearly completely ignoring legwork (once the first or second attempt at finding anything out failed - and by that I mean they called their Connection 4 fixer and asked "Do you know anything?" - "Nope" - "Ok, no chance of finding anything out, let's go"), and just storming a enemy stronghold guns blazing. Or having a plan to infiltrate a cruise ship (basically a swimming fortress), disguise ourselves and kidnap a mafia boss then at a moments notice decide to completely ignore the plan and just kick open his door and take him by force. And then figure out he wasn't even in the room... yay my infiltrator felt really useful in that game.

E) 5th has fewer exceptions to the rules and uses the same basic mechanic across all facets of the game. I like it better now that I have learned it.

Heard stuff like that before, and to me it seemed so as well, so think I'll go with 5th.

F) There aren't many books out for 5th so it is already kind of limited. maybe start with the core then add Street Grimore (magic), and Run&Gun if you want to make choices easier or allow for the addition of new items down the road.

I've not had a chance to look at Run Faster, what's the general consencious about it? A good addition or lot's of cheese?

Unlike pathfinder, where at a glance you can tell if a monster is stronger then the players, in SR it is much harder to determine an appropriate threat to challenge your players. Start small and build up.... if your players are stuggling, you may want to consider having the opposition 'fail' a few checks...

I'm not really a fan of dice fudging or rolling in secret and then just say "Yup, he hits".
Unfortunately I'm also not a fan of NPCs making silly decissions, though sometimes an NPCs personallity might get them to take stupid actions. A fanatic Humanis member might be inclined to shoot at the huge ugly troll street sam first, instead of the human mage.
But I get what you're saying and will keep an eye out for that.

"Keep it simple, stupid."
Probably the biggest and worst mistakes a starting GM can make is to design an ultra convoluted story, or a "world rests in the balance" game. For many players and GMs, this is a huge pitfall.

Yes, I don't want to start with a world spanning conspiracy. To be honest, I did read the plot summary of Splintered State and it almost feels a bit too complex too, going up against a governor and all that.
Also seeing the payout they can receive at the end of the game, wouldn't that mean that their motivation to going back to 1k milk runs afterwards is rather low, and I gotta keep them at this level now?
Or is the whole "Ok you got lucky this once, but since you blew all the cash on hookers and beer and fancy new augments, now the landlord is breaking your legs cause you didn't pay rent" not stupid?

There is nothing wrong with having no base direction for your campaign other then generic runs while you figure out your players, characters, and what direction they are taking their characters in.

Kind of why I'm not sure Splintered State is the best choice as a first mission, it does seem to set the PCs into a certain direction.

"Snowflakes are not special"
When first starting out. Its a good idea to limit character options to the baseline. (With 5e, this is less a problem as optional character choices JUST came out in Run Faster. )
Generally speaking, many 'optional' character choices do nothing but cause resentment and hurt feelings in new groups. Such Snowflakes should be left to established groups. And even then, expect hurt feelings. (Can't count the number of times i caved to my personal 'No Snowflakes' rule, only to watch that snowflake implode in the first 5 minutes of player time.... just not worth the drama.)

I've not seen it in SR yet, but in PF definitely, when people play the super weird races etc. I'm not always immune to it myself, so I understand the thrill behind it. But I also know I don't really wanna deal with it, so thats my reasoning for considering to not allow the metavariants.


Anyway, once again thank you all

[MijRai]

Street Level is messed up, and unduly punishes some character types; instead of making your characters a lower level, it just cuts their beginning nuyen and Karma.  It sort of forces people to go magic instead of 'ware if they want to be good at something, and it screws over deckers and riggers most of all.  Street Scum is an adjusted Priority column, which allows for the player to still have some nuyen if they want it, thus allowing more flexibility and 'fairness', I suppose.  It also lets them still have 25 Karma at the start, which allows for more customization of the character. 

Fifth Missions are on DTRPG, here's the first one; http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/119803/Shadowrun-Missions-Chasin-the-Wind-5A01?cPath=4328_10253

Splintered State didn't seem all that 'advanced' to me, but I only skimmed it quite a while ago.  Your results may vary, I suppose. 

Run Faster is a great book, in my experience, with a bunch of awesome Qualities for characters, as well as a bunch of very useful information for GMs. 

Personally, I allow 'snowflakes', as some folks term them, for the most part; it's only when it's something that's actively against the party that I get my hackles up.  For example, a sociopath vampire with an essence addiction who sees people as meat-sacks.  That cannot play well alongside a bunch of tasty meat-sacks.  That said, if you're in Chicago or something, a ghoul isn't all that crazy an option.  My suggestion; let them play a metavariant all you want, maybe even another kind of sapient critter or shapeshifter; just tell them to expect being special to not always work in your favor.  If the group you're in is good, it shouldn't be a problem; if it is, then you can always ex-nay the metavariants and refund the karma. 

[Walks Through Walls]

Quote from: Walks Through Walls on December 23, 2014, 09:54:36 PM

D) Both experienced and inexperienced players have their advantages. As far as this goes my recommendation is find players who enjoy the type of game you run/want to run. Shadowrun can go from very stealth and black hat to guns a blazing so making sure you and the players want/enjoy the same thing is important.



I'm not sure all the players know what they want, so that can be tough.
A recent game I was in was announced as "Much more black trenchcoat than pink mohawk" but what all the other players did was much more pink mohawk to me. Like nearly completely ignoring legwork (once the first or second attempt at finding anything out failed - and by that I mean they called their Connection 4 fixer and asked "Do you know anything?" - "Nope" - "Ok, no chance of finding anything out, let's go"), and just storming a enemy stronghold guns blazing. Or having a plan to infiltrate a cruise ship (basically a swimming fortress), disguise ourselves and kidnap a mafia boss then at a moments notice decide to completely ignore the plan and just kick open his door and take him by force. And then figure out he wasn't even in the room... yay my infiltrator felt really useful in that game.


I find that everyone has their own definition as far as Pink Mohawk and such so what I meant more is talking to the players about it more in terms of actual actions or after a few games molding the runs more to how players are acting/reacting in the game.