[Adder]

So there are costs for fake licenses (200-1,200). What is the cost to get a real license to a real SIN?

I'm house ruling this as the same cost as a rating 1 fake license for now, but I'm not really sure how to go about figuring this out. There's also the possible certification/etc. you'd have to go through... Any ideas or house rules?

[8-bit]

I'd say 600. It's a perfectly legitimate license (Rating 6 Fake Licenses are as close to perfect as possible), but it doesn't require any hacking of SIN Databases.

[MijRai]

Well, technically the tax/stamp to acquire an automatic weapon or suppressor costs 500 dollars in the US (the price was decided back when a Thompson sub-machine gun cost $200 or so, and a car cost $400), so I'd say 600 is probably a good one for that level (it ignores the bits where they just use the stamp/tax to run background checks on you before deciding if you can have it, which having a fake license skips).  Probably 200 for your average driver's license (that let's you drive, not the GridGuide), concealed carry set-up, etc. 

[Reaver]

Go with your gut.

The problem with what you are trying to do, is that the CRB looks at things from the average shadow-dwellers point of view, (Meaning, you are NOT a citizen. IE: do not have a real SIN), and the chances are you do not want legitimate licenses and such that could be used to trace back to your physical location. Thus, everything is in "shadow" currency.

I would expect that the license costs differ on what type of weapon you are trying to get a license for. So a license for a hold out pistol would be much, much less then that for a restricted class weapon...

And no, you can never get a license for a "forbidden" classed weapon.....

[ScytheKnight]

Personally if a character has SINner I give them any licensees they might need for their character at character gen. They are completely legit and completely and irrevocably linked o their real SIN. Once the game starts they won't be able to get these real licenses, only fakes.

[Adder]

Thanks for the input guys. I just went with 600¥ to settle the matter quickly.

While I'm at it, licenses are for types of weapons vs. a specific weapon (using serial # or some other tracking method), yes?

Each type of item/activity permission requires a separate license.

[ScytheKnight]

There's not really any hard and fast list of licenses, very much depends on the GM and what type of game they're creating as to what licenses you'll need.

[MijRai]

Conceal Carry licenses are a thing, firearm licenses are a thing, service licenses are a thing (medical, mechanic, etc.), etc.  Go from there, as need be.  Keep in mind, if it has an R, it could use one (or a broader one, I suppose).

[Reaver]

I can only answer from a Canadian view point (and thus not the world of SR)

In Canada until recently you needed a different licence for each classification of weapon.

your FAL got you hunting rifles and shotguns

your PAL got you pistols

your Restricted got you sport classed military weapons. (and this was a confusing list to sort through and was made totally arbitrary. You could own a Russian made SKS just fine, but not a Russian AK line. You could however own a Czech made AK line just fine, but not a Czech made SKS, even though both weapons were made to the same specs, received their material from the same place, and so on, and so on)

Your collectors permit allowed you to "Keep, display, use, and demonstrate, but NOT show" any historically or culturally significant weapon regardless of original classification. (And boy oh boy the legal papers you had to file, when some asshole paper pusher decided what was and what was not "culturally significant" on almost a yearly basis.)

On top of that, you had your Dealers permit.... Never looked into this one.

Obviously, each step up that ladder is helped by dealing with the step before, and each with a level of safety certification needed along the way (along with background checks and what not).

There is no such thing as "Concealed carry" in Canada for private citizens. (However, military command personnel as of 2001 can carry off duty) only members of the law can carry a concealed weapon (strangely, both on and off duty since 1965)

Then, on top of your license, EACH and every one of your firearms had to be registered with the government, at a fee based on the class of the weapons.

until 2 years ago, when I turned my weapons over to my attorney for storage, I was paying close to $3000 a year to register them all. Now I have my lawyer handle all that and he bills me along with other services on a quarterly basis so I have no idea what if anything I am paying now that C-68 was repealed. (this was the registering of weapons, not the permitting.)

Now Ask our buddies in Germany, or USA, or UK about their gun laws and you get a wildly different answer...

So Now I ask you this: As the GM, how much of a pain in the ass do you want to be to your players?
A small pain (gun license covers all guns) ?
A mild pain (Gun license for class of weapon)?
A barbed wire wrapped crowbar shoved in sideways (Each weapon needs a license, then registration PER weapon, each to be renewed yearly)?

[Adder]

So Now I ask you this: As the GM, how much of a pain in the ass do you want to be to your players?
A small pain (gun license covers all guns) ?
A mild pain (Gun license for class of weapon)?
A barbed wire wrapped crowbar shoved in sideways (Each weapon needs a license, then registration PER weapon, each to be renewed yearly)?

Mild pain :-)

[Agonar]

Thanks for the input guys. I just went with 600¥ to settle the matter quickly.

While I'm at it, licenses are for types of weapons vs. a specific weapon (using serial # or some other tracking method), yes?

Each type of item/activity permission requires a separate license.

If you look at the archetypes, they have things like Possession of Firearms, Possession of Augmentations, Concealed Carry, Private Detective, to practice medicine, to practice magic, magic, gun, hunting, drones...

So that's pretty much what I do in my game.   Any activity that might presumably require a license does.. hunting, driving, practicing magic.
Type of items, firearms, blades, foci, etc.  I don't require a license for every individual gun.  Now, if someone wants a restricted type of surveillance gear, they could either have a license for a job that would use that, or a license for that gear. 

[ScytheKnight]

Depending on the type of game the GM is running you might even get mileage out of things like Bounty Hunter, Bodyguard, Private Investigator/Detective, Occult Investigator, Arcane Forensics, etc. licenses as the GM may use these to shore up other Licenses and fake SINs.

[Damien Granz]

So there are costs for fake licenses (200-1,200). What is the cost to get a real license to a real SIN?

I'm house ruling this as the same cost as a rating 1 fake license for now, but I'm not really sure how to go about figuring this out. There's also the possible certification/etc. you'd have to go through... Any ideas or house rules?

I'm not sure it's in the official rules, but from an American standpoint, getting a real license can be around 30 dollars when all's said and done.

In fact, if a player has the SINner quality and a Low or better lifestyle, I'd figure regular legal permits would be subsumed by Lifestyle costs. I wouldn't even charge them for license for most sporting or 'home defense' class weapons licenses or driving permits and the like. And if they ask for legal licenses for more dangerous hardware, make it uncomfortably tense with the questions. But make it free.

If a player is getting a legal license that has their biometric data attached to ballistic/rifling identification information on their gun they're basically giving you rope to hang themselves with.

But if your players are new and don't know any better, make the DMV type people ask them all kinds of personal questions to get the hint that they're basically giving Lone Star a noose with their exact size.

Yeah, they can maybe modify the gun to change the rifling, giving it a new barrel, change the ID numbers on it, mess with the RFID tags, etc... but then the license is basically pointless anyways.

THAT SAID, if they're in Squatter or Street lifestyle, ESPECIALLY if they're Ork/Troll (or god save them, Shifters or something else exotic), make the price small.. but give them bureaucratic hell. Treat it basically like a Availability 20 check. Require their great grandmother's maiden name. Have them stopped for random screenings at every station. Change up the office hours, make them go from one office to the next at random.

At that point it should seem clear to them WHY most SINless have a fake license rather than go legit, even those not running the shadows.

There's a reason most people in the lower end are SINless and it ain't always because they want to be. If a pretty little thing comes in with 300 references and fees paid up front and papers prepared in triplicate, it's different than if a troll rolls off the street that nobody's heard of wearing vender machine flats trying to pay with a credstick. Or, god forbid if the licensing agents on shift happen to be Humanis or classist or what have you.

Is it fair? Is it right? No, but that's probably how it would be.

[farothel]

Most of the time we got licences for free if we had a certain lifestyle, within reason of course.  To give an example: I make a mage with a low to middle lifestyle (using the 4th edition advanced rules) and a real SIN.  Then I get my driver's licence, my licence to practice magic and a pistol licence included in the lifestyle.  I would have either a taser or light pistol on that real SIN, which I would never take on a run, but just to defend myself when I for instance went to a restaurant or something like that.

I would of course have fakes of the same to go with each of my fake SINs (at the same rating), but if I was just out to a restaurant and I got attacked, I could defend myself legally without having to go through a whole lot of problems later because I didn't have the licence.

Also: it's not because you have a licence for a pistol that you have to own a pistol (the same goes for instance for a driver's licence).

[Damien Granz]

Most of the time we got licences for free if we had a certain lifestyle, within reason of course.  To give an example: I make a mage with a low to middle lifestyle (using the 4th edition advanced rules) and a real SIN.  Then I get my driver's licence, my licence to practice magic and a pistol licence included in the lifestyle.  I would have either a taser or light pistol on that real SIN, which I would never take on a run, but just to defend myself when I for instance went to a restaurant or something like that.

I would of course have fakes of the same to go with each of my fake SINs (at the same rating), but if I was just out to a restaurant and I got attacked, I could defend myself legally without having to go through a whole lot of problems later because I didn't have the licence.

Also: it's not because you have a licence for a pistol that you have to own a pistol (the same goes for instance for a driver's licence).

I was under the impression that gun licenses were 'per gun', not gun type. Also Tasers aren't restricted so anybody can own one without a license. I could be wrong on that though.