[Imveros]

I have a series of odd questions brought on from a thought experiment trisk and i had:

1) If you are dual natured, do mana barriers physically stop you when you are not projecting?

2) If they do, could you climb,jump,stand on top of one(being dual natured) while still shooting through it?

3)Then can i keep casting mana barrier and then frog hop up them?

What I'm saying here is can i make super Mario the ghoul?!

The rules seem to hint i can, i just want to double check with you guys

SR Core 294

Mana Barrier
(Environmental, Area)
Type: M Range: LOS (A)
Duration: S Drain: F – 2
Mana Barrier creates an invisible barrier of magical
energy. It has a barrier rating equal to the net hits
scored and follows the rules for mana barriers (p. 315).
This barrier does not restrict living beings or physical
objects, but it impedes spirits, foci, dual beings, and
spells on the plane in which you cast it (physical or astral).
If cast on the astral plane, it also impedes astral
forms and reduces visibility.

Bolding is mine

[Reaver]

You have two factors at work here.

The resistance of mana by the barrier.

The force of gravity.

Chances are if you tried to "walk" on the barrier, gravity would pull you through it and you have an astral intersection. So either the mana barrier breaks (and the mage who cast it knows instantly, or YOU break and go unconscious.

[Imveros]

what if one used Physical barrier? It mentions that it acts like a wall and can be damaged by physical attacks. Hopefuly that means it has substance. Granted you would need a decent amount of hits to make the assumtion it would support meta human weight. Probably 4 or 5 hits. Dont fancy my chances of running/jumping on drywall or cheap doors ~_~

Core 197

Average Material 4 structure 6 armor
Example: furniture, plastiboard, ballistic glass

Core 294

Physical Barrier
(Environmental, Area)
Type: P Range: LOS (A)
Duration: S Drain: F - 1
This spell creates a glowing, translucent force field
with 1 point of both Armor and Structure rating per hit.
You can form the barrier as a dome with a radius and
height equal to the spell’s normal radius. Alternately,
you can use it to form a wall with a height equal to the
spell’s Force and a length equal to its Force x 2.
Physical Barrier creates a physical wall. Anything the
size of a molecule (or less) can pass through the barrier,
including air or other gases. Anything bigger treats the barrier
as a normal physical wall. The wall is translucent but
shimmers, the equivalent of Light Fog (p. 175). The barrier
does not impede spellcasting (other than visibility penalties),
except for spells with physical components like indirect
combat spells. The barrier can be brought down by
physical attacks, but as long as you sustain it will regenerate
all of its Structure Rating at the beginning of each Combat
Turn. If the barrier is reduced to Structure Rating 0, it
collapses and the spell ends.

[DigitalZombie]

I believe with a strong enough physical barrier, that yes, you could walk on it. Use it to cross lava pits etc.
And for only 1 notoriety point you could use spells shape metamagic to create a hole in it, and then an illusion spell to cover it up. Then let the party member you owe 20k cross the lava pit first.

Of course you wouldnt need to be dual natured for that.

 I agree with Reaver on the first question.

[Reaver]

I agree with the physical barrier. Enough hits and its a bridge.

The question is how many?

Off the cuff, i would say 2+, with the span being the bigger issue. The longer the span between 2 points, the more hits you would need to keep the barrier strong versus the weight... but that's just my take.

[Triskavanski]

You have two factors at work here.

The resistance of mana by the barrier.

The force of gravity.

Chances are if you tried to "walk" on the barrier, gravity would pull you through it and you have an astral intersection. So either the mana barrier breaks (and the mage who cast it knows instantly, or YOU break and go unconscious.

What if you walked into the barrier? Would not the same thing happen then?

[Reaver]

You have two factors at work here.

The resistance of mana by the barrier.

The force of gravity.

Chances are if you tried to "walk" on the barrier, gravity would pull you through it and you have an astral intersection. So either the mana barrier breaks (and the mage who cast it knows instantly, or YOU break and go unconscious.

What if you walked into the barrier? Would not the same thing happen then?

I'm just making conclusions from based on the write up from page 316; "Astral intersections"
(bold by me)

....If this happens, each astral form makes an Opposed
Test: living beings a Magic + Charisma [Astral], and
non-living barriers and objects a Force x 2 [Force] test.
The participant with any net hits remains normal and intact,
while all others are disrupted—on a tie, all participants
are disrupted.
Disruption means different consequences for different
things. Disrupted spells and rituals end, disrupted
preparations lose their spell and become mundane,
disrupted mana barriers collapse, disrupted foci deactivate,
disrupted spirits are banished, and disrupted living
creatures are knocked unconscious with a full Stun
Condition Monitor. Any permanent mana barrier that
is disrupted regains all its Structure at the end of the
Combat Turn.

So, if you walked into a barrier, you would probably be "pushed back" by it. If you hit it with enough force, or someone tackled you into and through the barrier, yea you could be disrupted and unconscious.

[Kiirnodel]

In Street Magic from 4th Edition, they had a great example of a dual-natured creature being forced into an astral intersection. It was an elevator that passes through a ward.

In the example it worked exactly as described by Reaver, either it breaks or you do. Astral Intersections are situations where you are forced into moving through the barrier.

Also note, a dual natured being would be able to see the barrier, since they can always see the astral. It isn't as likely to sneak up on them as it might a normal mage.

[Reaver]

good new for adepts however, they and most of their abilities count as "innate" and therefore do not have to worry about astral intersections.

If you're a "funky" metatype (like a vampire, or ghoul, etc) that are dual natured AND happen to be an adept, you're still screwed however (astral intersection time!)

[Triskavanski]

Well, its simple really....

Don't make astral barriers. Make Mana Barriers on the physical side.

Mana barriers on the physical plane are invisible (except to astral perception), but they act as solid barriers to spells, manifesting entities, spirits, and active foci.

Because the Astral Intersection is about Astral side of things, not the physical side. There is a reason there is an Offensive Mana Barrier after all.

[Reaver]

Well, its simple really....

Don't make astral barriers. Make Mana Barriers on the physical side.

Mana barriers on the physical plane are invisible (except to astral perception), but they act as solid barriers to spells, manifesting entities, spirits, and active foci.

Because the Astral Intersection is about Astral side of things, not the physical side. There is a reason there is an Offensive Mana Barrier after all.

Not for the dual natured as the OP originally asked.

Because they are active constantly on the both planes, it doesn't matter what type of ward is set up, they both hurt him if he passes through them.

Page 316 under astral intersections.

Mana barriers and astral forms are often tied to physical
objects. Astral beings can’t push physical objects
around, so objects may get dragged into contact with
barriers or (rarely) other astral constructs. For example, a
van protected with a mana barrier can drive into a warded
garage, an astrally perceiving magician can ride an
elevator into a warded basement, or a spell focus amulet
could be placed inside a spirit focus box.
If this happens, each astral form makes an Opposed.....
Test:

[Triskavanski]

Actually yes for dual natured  critters. When you cast a mana barrier it can be on one of the two planes, either physical or astral. If its Astral then its an Astral construction, and subjected to the rules of Astral intersections. If cast on the physical side, its a solid barrier

A Solid Barrier is quite the opposite of something you can walk through, even if walking through it causes issues.

[Reaver]

please read the section on astral barriers again.

[Triskavanski]

I have actually..


Page 316

Astral beings cannot push physical objects..

This is true. In the first two cases You have a physical object The van and the mage. who is tied to an astral object, A barrier and the mages astral form, that meet up with a purely astral form that isn't moving., In this case a ward.

This divide has always kinda been. If you're on the astral plane you can't activate triggers on the physical plane. So if a ghoul was to run through a purely astral barrier, he'd probally get astral intersected. Especially if he was forced through the bubble by something purely physical.

In the first two examples the physical object was the truck and the elevator. The astral barrier can't stop this.


However, Page 315, A barrier on the physical plane exists as a solid barrier to a bunch of magic stuff.

also on page 315, a mana barrier can be a physical entity, or astral. You choose which plane to cast it on.

Astral intersection isn't when two astral objects touch. Its when a third physical object forces one astral object into an other. Otherwise, ghouls explode when they touch eachother and Mana barrier becomes the mage killer.

[eximius]

A Mana Barrier on the Physical Plane blocks mana-based stuff on the Physical Plan (direct spells cast on Physical, manifested spirits, and early termination of indirect spells).

A Mana Barrier on the Astral Plane blocks mana-based stuff on the Astral (direct spells cast on Astral, spirits (always), and any other dual natured entity)

And, for completeness, a Physical Barrier blocks everything physical.

Now, Mana Barriers behave the same on both planes (as in, Astral Intersections apply on both) - the only difference is in what they affect. It just so happens Dual Natured entities are, well, dual natured and are subject to both.