[SecondSight375]

Hello everyone.

My friend is thinking about making a character that wields dual Uzis for 5e.  He was looking through the rulebook and came across the Full Auto option for weapons that allow it.  His question is: since Full Auto is a either a complex action to shoot 10 shots or a simple action to shoot 6, would he be able to shoot full auto with both guns for a 20 round burst and a -18 to dodge or would he only be able to do the simple action 6 round burst for a total of 12 shots because he is dual wielding?

In other words, if duel wielding, can you fire both weapons as a complex action (splitting the dice appropriately) for a total of 20 bullets?  Or would he have to do the shorter simple action option?

Thanks to anyone who responds!

[cyclopean]

It would be 2 separate shots, not added together. The shots would all have to be coming from the same gun in 1 action to add to overall minuses. You could do 2 6-round bursts or 2 10-rounds, but the recoil penalty is going to get pretty high for the firer. However, the 2nd burst would get an additional -1 to dodge if both bursts target the same target, for defending against an additional attack.

[UnLimiTeD]

((AGI-Automatics+Specialization) - (20 - STR/3 - RC))/2 doesn't leave all that many dice, unless you really trick yourself out.
Let's assume Cyberarms with 8 AGI, 7 STR and Gyromounts, and Rating 3 Gas Vents (and ignore the fact that you can hardly use a stock when dualwielding), then that's ((8+6+2) -(20 - 3 - 2x4 - 2x3 - 1))/2 = 7 dice per gun.
Not bad, but not terrible hard to evade for anyone worth the attention, either. Well, unless they wear so much armour that they view evasion as an unnecessary agitation of their fat reservoirs.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Any submachine gun with a Gas-Vent 3 is already halfway there to compensate for a Simple Action Full Auto attack. Add 4 Strength and you've got 2 more RC, then add the free RC when you start firing for a total of 6. Wouldn't each weapon be adequately compensated for at this point?

[8-bit]

Any submachine gun with a Gas-Vent 3 is already halfway there to compensate for a Simple Action Full Auto attack. Add 4 Strength and you've got 2 more RC, then add the free RC when you start firing for a total of 6. Wouldn't each weapon be adequately compensated for at this point?

You're still losing at least 3 dice from it, and you only are giving the opposition a -5 penalty. The real power comes from a Complex Action Full Auto Attack for a -9 penalty.

I would highly question dual-wielding SMGs though. And the Uzi can't even fire in Full Auto mode, so the point is moot.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

I could see this with machine pistols, there are a few that have full auto. Smg's not unless you are pink and for true PINK; DUAL WIELD LMGS!!

[ProfGast]

If you want to go exceptionally pink I can see a pixie dual wielding automatic weapons in order to gain additional acceleration while in flight.

Possibly Relevant Article

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Haha, that would almost be worth making a pixie for!

[Xenon]

Rule is clear when you use your two SMGs to fire at two different targets.

You spend a free action on multiple attacks. You spilt your pool and you attack each target individually with either 6 bullets each using a simple action or 10 bullets with a complex action (mind the progressive recoil in this firing mode). Targets take normal damage and a negative dice pool modifier to defense depending on number of bullets fired.

It is unclear what happens if you fire both SMGs at the same target (or If it is even allowed).

I would treat it the same way as attacking two different targets. Attacker spilt pool and attack twice. Defender defend against both attacks separately. Similar to how throwing weapons are worded or how you resolve attacking the same target with more than one spell in one single attack action.

(Without supporting rules it would probably be equal OK to treat it as a 12 (simple) or 20 (complex) bullet burst without the need of multiple attack free action or splitting the dice pool)

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

I would run it as to separate attacks via multiple attacks free action.

[SecondSight375]

It would be 2 separate shots, not added together. The shots would all have to be coming from the same gun in 1 action to add to overall minuses. You could do 2 6-round bursts or 2 10-rounds, but the recoil penalty is going to get pretty high for the firer. However, the 2nd burst would get an additional -1 to dodge if both bursts target the same target, for defending against an additional attack.

So then what would be the dodge modifier for the target of this attack?  Does the negative to dodge apply stack per burst?  I.E. If each gun did the 10 round full auto burst for 20 shots would it actually be a -19 to dodge (-9 for each full auto burst, -1 for an additional attack)?  I understand that the die pool would have to be split, just need some more clarification on the dodge penalty.  Thanks again everyone for your replies.

[jim1701]

If you were allowed to make two attacks on the same target in this way then it would be two attacks not one combined attack.  The shots would be resolved separately IMO so no stacking the dodge penalty.  What would stack, however, is the recoil penalty.  That would be 20 points of recoil to deal with.  That's quite a lot actually.   

[cyclopean]

Yeah, agreed, so it would be -5 / -6, or -9 / -10 (to dodge) for the 2 attacks (with the additional -1 for second attack) depending on if you did a 6-round or 10-round. and you would need to do the free action to get multiple attacks. that's how i would do it anyway.

[happybjorn]

The simple answer is that it doesn't work.

When a character uses the multiple attacks free action it allows them to choose another target; they can't choose the same target again because that is not another target.

The apparent exception to this is when using the throw weapon action.  However, how this is resolved is unclear and requires a ruling from a GM (is it multiple attack rolls or does it give the target a defense penalty?).  Requiring a ruling from a GM puts it in houserule territory, not RAW.

[gradivus]

The simple answer is that it doesn't work.

When a character uses the multiple attacks free action it allows them to choose another target; they can't choose the same target again because that is not another target.

The apparent exception to this is when using the throw weapon action.  However, how this is resolved is unclear and requires a ruling from a GM (is it multiple attack rolls or does it give the target a defense penalty?).  Requiring a ruling from a GM puts it in houserule territory, not RAW.

By RAW you can't fire two firearms at the same target. But of course, your GM might make an exception.
As to throwing weapons exception- can you point me to the relevant passage...I've glitched on my perception roll and can't find it.