[Lansdren]

I would like to believe that things will get better and I would prefer not to aim any vitriol at any one person (I believe that the work is a team effort and every single person is responsible for his own input), but that being said I am somewhat worried by the 'We will do it when we want to and you should be damm well happy we are even doing this much' attitude.

This is the part that I'm getting hung up on. I have yet to see any such attitude from JH or any of the other freelancers that are working on the projects. It's not a "we'll do it when we want to" approach, it's a "we have X outstanding projects right now and, unfortunately, the errata isn't high on the priorities" approach.

What part of 'isnt high on the priorities' isnt 'when we want to'

When you set the timelines you get to decide what the plan is.

We might differ in our interpratation but you have admitted yourself its not a high priority.

[FastJack]

I would like to believe that things will get better and I would prefer not to aim any vitriol at any one person (I believe that the work is a team effort and every single person is responsible for his own input), but that being said I am somewhat worried by the 'We will do it when we want to and you should be damm well happy we are even doing this much' attitude.

This is the part that I'm getting hung up on. I have yet to see any such attitude from JH or any of the other freelancers that are working on the projects. It's not a "we'll do it when we want to" approach, it's a "we have X outstanding projects right now and, unfortunately, the errata isn't high on the priorities" approach.

What part of 'isnt high on the priorities' isnt 'when we want to'

When you set the timelines you get to decide what the plan is.

We might differ in our interpratation but you have admitted yourself its not a high priority.

Because "WANT" is a big difference from "CAN".

I may "WANT" to buy the big flatscreen TV this week. I "CAN" buy it after saving my money for the next couple of weeks.

They may "WANT" to collect and publish the errata for the products, but "CAN'T" because they are currently working on getting Runner's Toolkit and Attitude out the door. And with the backlash from the release of War!, these are probably getting an extra go-around now, thus pushing the schedule back a bit further than they'd like.

As for timelines, I have yet to see any timeline accurately predict when a project will be done.

[Mäx]

This is the part that I'm getting hung up on. I have yet to see any such attitude from JH or any of the other freelancers that are working on the projects. It's not a "we'll do it when we want to" approach, it's a "we have X outstanding projects right now and, unfortunately, the errata isn't high on the priorities" approach.

And that IMO is really really bad approach, especially when few of those erratas are allready made and just awaiting someone to release thenm to the general public(as opposed to only those who buy new printings of books)

[FastJack]

Okay, I should clarify that my "quote" isn't a direct quote from anyone, but merely an example of what may be going on. I have no idea what the priorities for JH nor anyone else is right now. I also am not part of the publishing process for CGL, so I don't know what may be on the table nor what may be ready to release.

[PeterSmith]

...especially when few of those erratas are allready made and just awaiting someone to release thenm to the general public(as opposed to only those who buy new printings of books)...

This statement is based on...?

[Lansdren]

...especially when few of those erratas are allready made and just awaiting someone to release thenm to the general public(as opposed to only those who buy new printings of books)...

This statement is based on...?

There does appear to have been changes made to second printings that have not been errata'ed yet. I cant give actual details I'm afraid as I dont buy multiple copies of the same hardback.

[Mäx]

...especially when few of those erratas are allready made and just awaiting someone to release thenm to the general public(as opposed to only those who buy new printings of books)...

This statement is based on...?

The fact that the German printing as well as the latest English printing of RC include the errata as does the german version of Augmentation(from what i have cathered from emplyee posts, that one has been ready about half a dozen times over the years and has never been realeased )

[Cain]

I would like to believe that things will get better and I would prefer not to aim any vitriol at any one person (I believe that the work is a team effort and every single person is responsible for his own input), but that being said I am somewhat worried by the 'We will do it when we want to and you should be damm well happy we are even doing this much' attitude.

This is the part that I'm getting hung up on. I have yet to see any such attitude from JH or any of the other freelancers that are working on the projects. It's not a "we'll do it when we want to" approach, it's a "we have X outstanding projects right now and, unfortunately, the errata isn't high on the priorities" approach.

It shouldn't be a question of "want to".  It's a question of "Do we put out a quality product, or not?"  Basically, once again, this comes down to The Buck Stops Here. 

Putting out a car with full safety features isn't a matter of "priority", it's a matter of quality.  It doesn't matter how many outstanding projects you have, quality is important. 

[FastJack]

I would like to believe that things will get better and I would prefer not to aim any vitriol at any one person (I believe that the work is a team effort and every single person is responsible for his own input), but that being said I am somewhat worried by the 'We will do it when we want to and you should be damm well happy we are even doing this much' attitude.

This is the part that I'm getting hung up on. I have yet to see any such attitude from JH or any of the other freelancers that are working on the projects. It's not a "we'll do it when we want to" approach, it's a "we have X outstanding projects right now and, unfortunately, the errata isn't high on the priorities" approach.

It shouldn't be a question of "want to".  It's a question of "Do we put out a quality product, or not?"  Basically, once again, this comes down to The Buck Stops Here. 

Putting out a car with full safety features isn't a matter of "priority", it's a matter of quality.  It doesn't matter how many outstanding projects you have, quality is important. 

So now it no longer matters if they want to or not. Now, you're saying proof-reading and correcting errata is the same as Toyota making sure the brakes are up to snuff.

<sigh>

All I'm trying to say here is that the publishing industry has it's own problems. Then you toss in RPGs as a niche publishing and you get more problems because you don't have as many people going over the books as Little, Brown and Company that can have 50 people read over Twilight before it hits the shelves. THEN you add to the fact that Catalyst doesn't have the resources of WotC/White Wolf, so that means there's even less to work with. Are errors going to slip through? More than likely. Is it important they get fixed? Yes. Do I want JH and crew to postpone deadlines of other projects in the pipeline in order to get a official pdf that says "Page 52, paragraph 5, line 2: replace 'his' with 'hers'"? No.

But that's my own personal feelings on the matter. You obviously feel differently about the subject and nothing I say will change that, so let's agree to disagree on this and let the matter drop.

[Lansdren]

Ok, this is my position if I get to choose from

A) A book taking 8 months to be written published and dispatched but it has mistakes / errors which may or may not be fixed at some point in the future.

Or

B) A book taking 10 - 12 months to be written published and dispatched but is of very high quality and needs only minor tweeks at worst


I'm choosing B please Bob.

Id rather wait abit longer for something great then less time for something ok with no guarentee of it being fixed.


*my prospective timelines are not supposed to be realistic as I have no real background data on this subject. All expressions of time should be used for indicitive purposes only, if you do know actual timelines please feel free to substitute these in your own head.

[Mäx]

Do I want JH and crew to postpone deadlines of other projects in the pipeline in order to get a official pdf that says "Page 52, paragraph 5, line 2: replace 'his' with 'hers'"? No.

Yeah, because obliviously releasing erratas that are already made is gonna postpone new releases by a whole lot

[FastJack]

@Lansdren:

I agree, if it takes longer to get a better quality product out, I can be patient. But for a product that's been worked on for a while and will soon see the light of day (like the Runner's Toolkit), I'd rather not have it be delayed a couple more months so they can get errata out for a book that's been published.

@Mäx:

I don't know what JH has on his desk ready to go, so I can't say that errata is already made for the products that they can release to the public. Yes, they have a collection of errata and have fixed it in 2nd printings and such, but they may not have it in a file and/or format that they can just publish to PDF and put it on the site. Like I said, I don't know what's on everyone's plates right now nor what is readily available to them. Also remember, as was brought up before, they are working for a company and have people they report to. If the higher-ups tell them to focus on new (income-generating) products versus publishing (free) errata, they have to focus their energy on the wishes of their bosses.

[Morg]

They could try making a half price released Proofread PDF with a form for fan suggested fixes that way they have more eyes on it and no one is disappointed on low quality because they know it is a proofread copy and if they relay love shadowrun they can help raise the quality themselves. it is sad that the idea is unlikely end up on the table though.

[ssjevot]

Maybe they should hire someone to just deal with errata.  Or get a volunteer.  Someone who is dedicated to just taking care of the compilation, release, and incorporation (into new print copies) of errata.

[Morg]

I am fairly sure that if they just post it on the forums they would get plenty of errata feedback