[Senko]

Mil-spec is too expensive to buy and maintain for all but elite units, security armour is too bulky and heavy to move in for all except bases (corporate or military) so what's the standard armour issued to soldiers deployed on general duties in active battlegrounds?

[psycho835]

Full body armor, I think. Although some books/missions give them armored jackets (which is just idiotic).

[mjack]

Armor vest, armor jacket, full body armor or even industrious line armor based on unit, climate of theater and military budget. By armor rating an armor jacket may also represent a reinforced extended tactical vest or if you insist on a "jacket" it might as well be an armored parka.

[psycho835]

Armor vest, armor jacket, full body armor or even industrious line armor based on unit, climate of theater and military budget. By armor rating an armor jacket may also represent a reinforced extended tactical vest or if you insist on a "jacket" it might as well be an armored parka.

Oops, didn't think of that.

But armor vest is a little too light for military - unless we are talking about soldiers on a covert op trying to keep a low profile.

[8-bit]

Oops, didn't think of that.

But armor vest is a little too light for military - unless we are talking about soldiers on a covert op trying to keep a low profile.

I could possibly see an Armor Vest (or equivalent, in terms of Armor) in a jungle or desert region, for example. It's lighter and easier to move in. When you're trekking for hours, possibly days, you take what you can get.

I agree that it wouldn't be standard, though.

[Namikaze]

Scouts might get armor vests or armor jackets.  Light infantry would probably get armor jackets.  Medium infantry would likely get full body armor.  Heavy infantry starts to get into the Mil Spec stuff, and gets really nasty.

Actually, that's not much different from the police in a lot of ways, except that KE would likely stick to vests and jackets, giving out full body armor for HRT teams.

[Tarislar]

Scouts might get armor vests or armor jackets.  Light infantry would probably get armor jackets.  Medium infantry would likely get full body armor.  Heavy infantry starts to get into the Mil Spec stuff, and gets really nasty.

Actually, that's not much different from the police in a lot of ways, except that KE would likely stick to vests and jackets, giving out full body armor for HRT teams.

This ^^

[Senko]

I'm not sure heavy infantry would get Mil-Spec since it states its too maintenenc intensive and expensive for all but elite units (red samurai or the Tir Tirngaire knights) and it needs to be custom made for the wearer. So what about armoured clothing? Looking at pictures of actual soldiers it looks like they'd just get an armoured vest and helmet (maybe armoured clothing or a jacket in shadowrun) whereas the elite heavy threat response units would get mil-spec gear.

[Namikaze]

When you think of heavy infantry, what are you thinking of, Senko?  When I think of heavy infantry, I think of the units that go deep behind enemy lines, pushing their way forward like human tanks.  They don't actually exist in today's infantry, which focuses more on mobility than durability.  I'm talking about something almost anime - guys in armored suits that can take a rocket to the chest.

[Senko]

I assumed that was what you mean, thing is I don't think mil spec really works for them. To me the phrase heavy infantry brings up the elementals in battle tech who really were just the evolution of regular troops (armoured, jet packs, heavy weapons etc) but deployed in large numbers. Mil-Spec armour on the other hand gives the impression its only for the best of the best. The difference between heavy assault forces and your imperial guard. The former will have good weapons/gear but your not going to spend the funds to have each soldier individually kitted out in armour that wont fit anyone else and requires expensive ongoing maintenance to work. Instead you'll have armour that comes in "small, medium, large, extra large" and can be issued to anyone of that size and requires minimal upkeep for regular troops and moderate upkeep for the special forces.

[Tarislar]

I didn't realize about the custom sizing issue of Milspec armor.
I'd agree, its likely not something that is mass issued.
Certain Spec Ops units maybe, but not even all of them, some won't need it based on their mission.
But the Red Samurai & Tir Knights are good examples of "Elite Guards" that would use it.

Maybe the 2070 version of the Secret Service has some units that use it.
Perhaps Ultra-elite teams for Counter Terrorist &/or Hostage Rescue would use it as well.
I'm trying to think of another modern day equivalent that would use the kind of custom/personalized suits that is Heavy Mil-Spec.

[Senko]

Not many since we don't have a close equivilent to it (bomb disposal troops maybe). To use a semi-recent example look at G.I.Joe rise of cobra the black armoured clothing the GIJOES wear at the start and end of the film is what I see being issued to general troops while the acceleration suits (millions of dollars each, custom fitted) are the mil-spec armour. Red Samurai and Tir Knights are given as examples of units given mil-spec armour.

I thought secret service were more agents than soldiers if you see what I mean?

[Namikaze]

Not many since we don't have a close equivilent to it (bomb disposal troops maybe).

Which is why you kind of have to take this with a grain of salt.  Mil-spec armor isn't for the average, everyday troops.  But the heavy infantry that act as a vanguard on a battlefield?  Those guys don't exist in real life.  There's no equivalent to them at all.  There's no way to determine who in the real world would use that kind of gear, simply because it doesn't exist.  As to the whole "Red Samurai" thing - those are the elite military of Renraku.  They're exactly the kinds of soldiers I'm referring to as "heavy infantry."  And the Tir Ghosts?  Those are very literally a heavy military unit.  Sure they have light forces as well (who are arguably better than the heavy guys) but they're also exactly who I'm referring to as "heavy infantry."

Maybe I'll change the terms I'm using.

Scouts and other light forces would use armor vests, maybe jackets.  The exception to this are highly-trained Chimera, Tir Ghosts, etc. who probably use specialized equipment like mil-spec armor.
Medium infantry are the bulk of any military infantry.  These guys use jackets, and rarely anything lighter than this.  They might use some light mil-spec gear, but it's unlikely.
Specialized units are the cream of the crop - these are the Delta Force guys, Red Samurai, etc.  These guys use mil-spec gear when they're rolling heavy, but will use anything that's appropriate to their environment and opposition.

[Senko]

Well to be fair when trying to place shadowrun troops I don't look at real world examples I look at my bookshelf of fiction.

[Tarislar]

I thought secret service were more agents than soldiers if you see what I mean?

They are, but I'm thinking more of the "SWAT" style guys that respond to their requests when the S*** hits the fan.
Sure the 1st line is business suits.  But there are people on "ready-5" status just waiting for when things go bad.
As far as the Tir guys, IIRC the ones in Heavy Armor are the "palace guards" aren't they?  Not the spec ops guys but the ones that are literally dressed up as mid-evil knights in all shining silver armor, except its not plate mail, its highly stylized body armor.  I remember reading that somewhere.