[AJCarrington]

Saw this article over on io9, Shadowrun, The Cyberpunk Fantasy Game That Couldn't Keep Up With Reality, thought I would share here for comment.

While I can't say I agree with everything he says...at the end, he still wants to play...kinda the I look at it sometimes. I guess that resonated with me some level.

Thoughts/comments?

[Kincaid]

In fairness, the Matrix and rigging rules have always been the highest roadblocks to the game, so I can't really fault him for pointing that out.  5e has done a lot to improve that through more rules unification (I still have nightmares about 2e Matrix), but Matrix topography is a pretty esoteric topic for new players and exactly what (or which) Speed my control rig increases is an open question.

The wires and plug-n-play datajacks and whatnot of 1-3 were really just expressions of how we thought about computers at the time and, eventually, carry-over from previous editions.  My iPhone today does much more than my first character's pocket secretary, which is crazy to think about.  That Thatcherite fears that helped shape the game have largely passed, but I don't see that so much as not keeping up, but rather a "What if?" scenario.

[jim1701]

I have to agree that rules wise that Shadowrun is a game that can't get out of its own way.  Personally I'd like to see a battleaxe taken to the next edition to pare down the rule set to something more manageable.  I'd also like to see fluff and rules better separated than what has been the case in this edition. 

[Sterling]

I wish that more reviewers, and yes players too, would take a step back and remember that the whole Shadowrun reality diverged in 1999 - so no internet, no Apple, no smartphones.  The world was dealing with major stuff that diverted attention away from this kind of research.

Expecting that world to have the same level of technology is short-sighted.

[Reaver]

I agree that the matrix and rigger sections have always been the weakest link in SR. But they have improved immensely.

After all you no longer have to worry about:

"You are on a green 4 much node, you can either move to an orange 3 cup node, a red 7 gateway node, or a black 4 much node. What do you do?"
"..... I shoot my deck. Then shoot the matrix. Then shoot, hang, and tar and feather the matrix engineer who designed the system!"

[Sithlis]

After all you no longer have to worry about:

"You are on a green 4 much node, you can either move to an orange 3 cup node, a red 7 gateway node, or a black 4 much node. What do you do?"
"..... I shoot my deck. Then shoot the matrix. Then shoot, hang, and tar and feather the matrix engineer who designed the system!"

Ahhhhh!  Oh what I'm not having a flashback. Thank Ghost I was worried for a minute.

[Reaver]

Oh wow. They REALLY have to take that editor away...

It changed all the M P C P and other entries to "much" and "cup"

[adzling]

This article pretty much just validates what most of the posts on many shadowrun forums indicate, which is that the rules are horrible written with many sections barely legible or completely unusable (vehicle rules, barrier rules, movement in combat, addiction etc).

It does boggle my mind how Catalyst could employ actual editors (they say they do) and still have the horribly written/ proofed/ structured books.
It's also rather mind-bending that they could write such horrific rules sets that do not work in many areas (see above) and claim they are play-tested and written by gamers.

It really does beggar belief.

The only answer I could come up with as to why the product is so poor in both editing and content is one that has been suggested before by others, which is that they rushed all this through with huge amounts of copy pasta and little or now time spent editing and playtesting.

[TonyK]

For the life of me, I can't remember what book the list illustration in the post comes from:


Anyone?

[Aryeonos]

I personally think the 4e matrix rules were fine, they were just poorly explained and not and laid out with a whole lot of thought. Matrix rules basically worked exactly the same in and out of the matrix, simple, used the same parameters that the rest of the game uses, also simple. The problem being book layout, lack of diagrams/tables that helped spell out how actually simple it all is. The matrix rules for 5e that I`ve read so far are a step in the wrong direction, and gimping the rest of the world to throw decker/crackers a bone was a bonehead move.

After playing/reading pathfinder, shadowruns books look like they were written by a golden god of editing though. Pathfinder being a game known for being "simpleñ and "easy to pick up". So it could be allot worse.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Heck I didn't have a problem with 2e matrix rules. I'd hate them today as my ability to focus and read through a rule book has been shot to hell. Now I read a paragraph of something I like to read and realize I spaced out half way through and read the words without understanding them. Dry rules don't stand a chance.

As clunky as the rules are, a streamlined rules would have a hard time pulling off the feel of difficulty shifts, enhanced reflexes, matric, rigging, magic all in one system.  I'm not saying it can't be done. Just haven't seen a rule system that would feel like shadowrun if used.

[AJCarrington]

This article pretty much just validates what most of the posts on many shadowrun forums indicate, which is that the rules are horrible written with many sections barely legible or completely unusable (vehicle rules, barrier rules, movement in combat, addiction etc).

It does boggle my mind how Catalyst could employ actual editors (they say they do) and still have the horribly written/ proofed/ structured books.
It's also rather mind-bending that they could write such horrific rules sets that do not work in many areas (see above) and claim they are play-tested and written by gamers.

It really does beggar belief.

The only answer I could come up with as to why the product is so poor in both editing and content is one that has been suggested before by others, which is that they rushed all this through with huge amounts of copy pasta and little or now time spent editing and playtesting.

Strange...I didn't come away with that impression at all. No doubt, some of the rules are challenging (think we're all looking forward to Data Trails) and for some, that may impact their enjoyment of the game. However, for me, that doesn't prevent my enjoyment of the game, setting and community...YMMV

[Reaver]

I think that has generally been the problem with SR for a long while. you have so many elements trying to interact, it is almost impossible to get them to mesh well.

Combat...
Magic...
Rigging...
Decking...

We have separate rules for each one, and while they try to make them overlap as best they can, it's always one or two that are the Red Headed Step Children

[adzling]

Your always so even handed aj, your an asset to the community ;-)

This article pretty much just validates what most of the posts on many shadowrun forums indicate, which is that the rules are horrible written with many sections barely legible or completely unusable (vehicle rules, barrier rules, movement in combat, addiction etc).

It does boggle my mind how Catalyst could employ actual editors (they say they do) and still have the horribly written/ proofed/ structured books.
It's also rather mind-bending that they could write such horrific rules sets that do not work in many areas (see above) and claim they are play-tested and written by gamers.

It really does beggar belief.

The only answer I could come up with as to why the product is so poor in both editing and content is one that has been suggested before by others, which is that they rushed all this through with huge amounts of copy pasta and little or now time spent editing and playtesting.

Strange...I didn't come away with that impression at all. No doubt, some of the rules are challenging (think we're all looking forward to Data Trails) and for some, that may impact their enjoyment of the game. However, for me, that doesn't prevent my enjoyment of the game, setting and community...YMMV

[Senko]

Oh wow. They REALLY have to take that editor away...

It changed all the M P C P and other entries to "much" and "cup"

I admit when reading your post I didn't realise it had been edited and thought the cup and much nodes were actual game terms.