[Vibral]

I am playing in a campaign with multiple GMs. We are each taking turns and I'm going to be added to the rotation. We have as a whole made a few... questionable... decisions, and there have been a few expressed ideas that though not acted upon were relatively dark.

When I'm up to bat I want to really force the group to see and think about what they are being paid to do and doing as people in the universe.

So my question to you is how far is too far? How much ¥ would it take for you to break your characters moral code if they have one?

Here is the idea I have so far though some details have been removed as two of the players frequent this forum.

Learn when to walk away:

The runners while in the city proper, will be couriered a Comm. The comm will ring about 5 minutes after delivery to the hotel room with an offer to meet for a job.

Contract Conditions: Go to the building during normal business hours. Travel fully kitted up to the 14th floor. Kill everyone and escape. ¥250k

Clauses: Run must occur in 2 days. Team must enter the building at 11:04 AM on a that morning. Extremely low rent security in the building, but a HRT will likely respond to the call. They must enter the elevators no later than 11:06 AM after dealing with any initial security. Survivors not necessary. Upon departing the elevator you are to indiscriminately kill everyone not a part of your runner team. No matter who they are or what they are doing. You must agree to leave no survivors because it is possible that this may include unarmed women and children and there is no payment if anyone survives.

Bonus: Confirm the kill any member of the inevitable HTR team. ¥100k via a recording and memento.

Negotiation options:  Johnson will throw an additional ¥50k at the team if they try and walk away.

Would your runners take this job? Does this scream "Run Away!" loud enough? Is the money enough you/your runners would even consider it? The run would be in a medium security area and present a lower risk to the runners on a physical scale but a much higher risk to who they are as people and I want to properly convey that.


This is as close as I thought I could get to "Burn down that orphanage!" Without directly saying as much.


Thoughts?

[Kincaid]

It certainly screams run away to me.  Indiscriminate killing of civilians in a fairly public manner is going to bring down a LOT of heat on my head when I become Public Enemy #1.  It would be impossible to do business in this town (and probably country) again, to say nothing about the moral reservations my character(s) would almost assuredly have.

From an out-of-game perspective, I guess I would ask what part of this scenario is fun?  There are all sorts of morally questionable scenarios that you can throw at your players in order to convey the dystopian nature of the Sixth World without going all "No Russian" with them.  Indeed, the horror of their choices would probably be more stark on a smaller scale.  Slaughter on such a large scale loses some of its emotional impact at the table.  Deciding the fate of a single little girl who can ID you as criminals?  That can get them where it hurts.

[Vibral]

So do I twist it to be something that could be a lot of fun? Involve more planning so that there is the illusion that they have a way to plan their way out of it morally?

Though I do like the idea of a single person being an eye witness to the crime but what stops them from just attempting to intimidate her instead? Cyber eyes  which were recording and the data will be uploaded to Lone Star just means they need to hack/destroy the data. Basically presenting other options.

My thought process was to use a News bulletin the session after to let them know another team did take the job. Things didn't end well for them. 

[Kincaid]

How comfortable would you be intimidating an 8-year old with physical violence?  Is a child going to take the word of a stranger over the word of a parent?  How sure are the runners going to be after leaving the child that she's trustworthy?  I mean, we don't trust 8-year olds to carry trays of glasses filled with water, would we trust one (even one that liked us) with our lives?  I love my son, but he can't dress himself.  I'm not about to trust him with life or death decisions.

The painful parts of the world reveal themselves when you're *not* shooting.

As a tangent, I also generally have a "It's okay to say no" run tucked somewhere in things.  I give the players a lot of clues beforehand, but knowing your limits is a big part of being a professional shadowrunner.

[pariah3j]

How about throw a twist in there - they are asked to come to the hotel all kitted up as you said, and head directly to said floor/door. Upon arriving they will get a call and receive instructions. When they get there the Johnson 'updates' them that they must now kill their way out indiscriminately without survivors if they want to get paid. They are here, they've already come half way, do they say no way, do they shrug and say well might as well. And if they say no, you could make it an elaborate setup by one of your groups enemies, former/current rivals ? Cops are already being dispatched or maybe even starting to arrive as they get that call.

This would preset a different type of character internal quarrel - do you finish the job you agreed to do, or not ? My Combat Medic I play has 2 major rules about runs, he is a man of his word, thus will give it his all to complete a run he takes, and he does not slaughter/kill innocents or unarmed. Honestly I think he would break this contract because it wasn't what he thought he was agreeing to in the beginning.

[Vibral]

Oooo...

Geared up at the building and then await further instructions is a lovely wrinkle.

If you are halfway in the grave is there enough of you left to pull yourself out of it? Thought this may also teach them to be cautious of future offerings where not all the details are laid out in front of them.

Also lets me play out a car chase if they accept initially or go through with it, which is awesome as I've been dying to do one in Shadowrun.

[firebug]

One thing I'd suggest doing is to try and think up why someone wants the run done.  It's not relevant to your players immediately, but if they do it and the consequences unfold, the reason why such a thing was "needed" in the first place can be a massive deal.  Especially if it turns out it's something like "The job was for a vampire blood mage, who wants to use the now absolutely violence/death/blood-soaked astral to his advantage to do something of terrifying proportions."

Plus, if it's just too...  Cartoonishly evil and purposefully provocative, the players probably won't be phased by it, and it won't make any sense in-universe.

[Fizzygoo]

My first concern is "why".

Why does the Johnsons (and his/her employers) want this done? Without this info this run lacks in-world grounding and is more in the vein of a hypothetical moral-philosophy question. (Totally understand if you don't want to post mission secrets here in case your players are reading.)

The PCs will (at least they should) do legwork to find out at least a hint of what's going on.

If they learn that the whole reason for the run is "cause the Johnson is a psychopath and too frightened of their own shadow to get their hands dirty," Well that right there is why not to take the job. Never trust a psychopath to make good on paying you for a job done. The players and their PCs can simply avoid the moral issue of the whole thing by realizing it's not a sound job oportunity in the first place.

Now if the job is "geek the target on the 14th floor and there cannot be any witnesses" and the players learn the target is a standard viable target for a wetwork (bonus if the target itself is known for killing/harming civillians and/or children) and the Johnson says, "I will have my associates take control of building security as I need proof that the job is done, that there are no witnesses, etc." and then...during the run a couple of kids run into the hallway and discover the runners geeking the target...now you've set up a moral dilemma for them.

The job started as a standard wetwork.
They know Johnson knows there are witnesses.
They know the pay is ¥250K.
They know Johnson has the resources to take over a hotel's security.
They have already committed murder for said money.
Are they willing to step over this new line? It would be so easy to frame the target as having killed the kids.

[Vibral]

Actually I already thought of that. So the intent and timing of the run is to act as a smoke screen for another set of runners who are working the real job. (which is also a footnote in the news brief the next mission) They are in the building next door.

My runners are out of Towner's when the offer is made. Easy plausible deniability. What will come about from this is they end up working for the "Real" Johnson and finding out the whole thing is connected. The little "side jobs" and the big over arcing story have all been interwoven and connected from the beginning. *Evil laughter* Things are going to get better and depending on player choice get much, much worse for the area as a whole if they just follow the ¥ blindly.

Also yes I'm being somewhat intentionally vague here to avoid giving too much away as there are legit reasons to be given to the players for what is going on and how to approach it so that the legwork checks out. Yep the Johnson would have indirect access to the feed from the building to confirm the job is completed.

[ScytheKnight]

I think a better way of handling this is via a secondary Johnson. You do a normal run via a Johnson where nothing is amiss, then mid run they get contacted by someone else who'll offer a substantial bonus for handling the run in a less ethical way that doesn't compromise the original run to a point where it can't be completed.

So say the team is sent on a simple data extraction, they get contacted to also place a milspec virus into the systems to cause widespread mayhem in the companies matrix systems.

Or the team has been hired to destroy some evidence, and are contacted to instead doctor it and plant the blame at someone's else's feet.

The team is sent to shutdown some kind of facility, and are contacted to completely demolish key machinery.

Or the team is doing just about any kind of run, and then mid run are contacted to do a wetwork job while they're on sight.

[Vibral]

ScytheKnight, My only problem with that is none of your examples would give the team pause. We (last mission) ran face to face with a confirmed member of Tamanous who was mid dissection of a body for cyberware and organ harvesting. We suspected he was also a ghoul but did not bother to confirm. We gave him a kilo of NovaCoke to insure we could add him to our contacts for future bad body disposal and potential line on cheap(er) cyber... So I need something considerably more overt to get their attention and get them thinking as to where each of their characters draws the line.

[ScytheKnight]

Sounds to me that may possibly be a lost cause... some people have no real issues with delving into the faker shadows others won't touch.

[Squirrel]

Being contacted midway in a run by an outside person, be it a known Johnson or not, that wants to modify the run is a clear sign that the run is compromised. GTFO!
If it is possible that a child has witnessed your crime, don't bother with intimidation. Children have a great tendency not to think about consequences and tell the truth when asked.
Whether or not your character knows that and would be psycho enough to kill the kid is a different question.

Both of these circumstances are rather one-sided solution-wise.

Initial question:
That run should never be taken on.
Wetwork is already a frown upon field of labor. Doing it doesn't get you a lot of friends. Doing it against people whom you don't even know and who's friends you will make your enemy? No thanks.

[pariah3j]

Well an outside Johnson doesn't make sense, it screams trap even more so, and it gives pause for a different reason.

I think Vibral is going for more of a ethical dilemma. Where do you draw the line as a gun for higher ?

I think a mission that starts out with "kill all the padawans" is a little to over the top. But a simple run, that checks out for a decent payday brings them in. Then maybe the large sum comes up when they are compromised/witnessed or like someone suggested, maybe its a blood vamp or something along those lines and the Johnson drops the real run/motive half way through and offers an insane amount of money to do so. If they decide to go through with it make them take composure tests to see if they can keep slaughtering mindlessly - even sociopaths have empathy for little kids. The composure tests get harder the more brutal and ruthless they are ? Those that fail are haunted by nightmares for the next several days/weeks/months ? Maybe one of the people they kill has ties to someone with money/power and he takes it personally and starts perusing them, targeting them in their safehouses and while they are unarmed or defenseless.

[Squirrel]

Maybe you give them a simple breaking'n'entering run for information.
Have them encounter unexpectedly big but beatable resistance.
When they meet with their Johnson again they get the information, that they randomly took out the target of another run, the Johnson wanted to hire them next for and they were supposed to gather intel on first.
Since they did such great work, Johnson wants to keep them happy and pays even without contract. Not everything in SR has to be going south.