[Grendel]

I'm not at all new to Shadowrun, but I've never really had a solid group to run a whole campaign with before. So sitting down and looking over the city of Seattle, I'm trying to figure out how many professional runners there should be in Seattle and how many local pros the group should realistically be encountering.

My initial guess is that reasonably competent 'Runners (roughly ranging between 450 - 525 BP's) should be pretty uncommon, numbering perhaps between 20 - 30 in Seattle, and much more common should Shadowrunners coming from the ganger level (ie opponents & rivals at about the 325 - 400 BP range). Runners at higher levels of competence (higher than 600 BP's) should be truly rare, countable on a single hand or thereabouts, I think.

But my question is what others think about the matter. Do you simply point match opponent teams to your pc's for the best game session or attempt to give a more measured layered view of the setting?

[wraith]

I always figure the demographics at somewhere around ~100 runners of starting PC level in the Seattle sprawl.  Given 4-6 runners in a group, and the idea that runners pull one job every two weeks to a month, that means there's a couple dozen runs on the go a week.  That seems reasonable given the size of the sprawl and the number of organizations with a motivation to hire.  Of course, that's not including the teams who've sold out and are acting as corporate 'assets' full time, but they also work the jobs that runners off the streets won't even be offered.  Or the hopped-up gangers, as you mention.

Prime Runners are another bag of fish, of course, but they generally seem to get runs on a much more global scale.

[The Cat]

I very rarely use points at all when coming up with opposition for my groups.  I build interesting opposition, with skills they "should" have at levels they "should" have with gear they "should" have and attribute levels they "should" have based on their function and background.  They arrive in numbers reasonable for the encounter.  Yes, that means occasionally a team will run up against opposition that is easy to take out.  Yes, it means they occasionally run into opposition that is nigh-impossible to take out.  That's by design because the NPCs make sense to the encounter.  If it's the former, they steamroller over them and get paranoid why it was too easy; if the latter, they are (usually) smart enough to break off, fall back and come up with a way around the problem.

Very very rarely, they will run into opposition that is unintentionally too easy or too difficult, in those cases, just bring in reinforcements or trust the players to know to drop back and come at them a different way.

[Fizzygoo]

Yeah, Wraith's estimate sounds about right.

Here's my reasoning. For a major sprawl like Seattle, the AAA's will have on average 3 "go-to-local" teams each (some AAA's only one or two, some 4 or 5, and then there could be some cross-over teams). So that's about 30 teams x 4.5 members = 135. Then each of the Big Syndicates will have 1 or 2, closer to 1 as they like to use "in-house" more often than not. So there's another ~6 teams x 4.5 = 27. 135 + 27 = 162.

Now "realistically" this sounds kind of high to me, but having 3 teams for each of the AAA's means I can have 1 fully fleshed out as antagonists (or contacts), 1 that's "named" and mentioned but not fleshed out, and 1 that I don't bother talking about for when a player says something like, "Hey, I just read that one Sourcebook/Novel/etc., and there was this one team with this one guy...I want to go find him," or "hey, would that corp have a group that specialized in X [and yeah, it making sense to me, but I didn't think of it until the player now mentions it], shouldn't we try to find those guys?"

Even then though, it could easily be consolidated to 2 teams per AAA.

If runners pull a run, on average, every 2 weeks, and there's 36 teams (of high BP build), that puts it at 72 runs a month, or about 18 runs in a week.
If runners pull a run, on average, every month, and there's 36 teams (of high BP build), that puts it at 36 a month, or about 9 runs in a week.

I like the lower end number of runs as 18 a week for they pay that high BP builds would expect means it's an expensive and busy city filled with more mayhem that the powers that be would like/allow. Plus, I like writing up little blurbs of more noticeable (or failed) runs by "those other runners in the sprawl" so the more actual runs means the more I'm likely to write up which I just don't have a lot of time to do these days

But for actual game play, I agree with The Cat. "What should be happening for this run" and rarely is another group of shadowrunners called in for security purposes...they tend to be too expensive.

[Mystic]

In all of my campaigns, I usually have more than one run on deck ready to go. I give the group a choice; they never HAVE to take the run Mr. Johnson initially offers. My oposition is based on what the run is for. This includes but not limited to 1) nature of the run (extraction, data snatch, strong-arm, etc), 2) the level of security/opposition related to said run, 3) how "valuable" said retrievable asset is or how much Mr. Johnson wants it.

I agree with The Cat. Some opposition will be weaker than the group, sometimes stronger...sometimes a LOT stronger. I feel that part of any run is legwork, and it is up to the group to determine the relative strength of their opposition BEFORE engaging in the run. If they don't, and a three man team of "gang-level" runners ends up going up against a High Threat Response team or full squad of Red Samurai because they didnt bother to do any recon...their fault. I never try and match the opposition to the players because I never believe in fair fights. Question always is, who's gonna have the advantage?

It's up to the players to make their own advantages or know when to back off.

As for the number of, lets call them top tier runners, honestly...that's up to you. Yeah, there can be all sorts of ratios, ccharts, probibility numbers and statistics someone can whip up to support any figure you want. Nothing wrong with that but ultimately, it depends on what game you want to run. The more the runners, the more competition there will be for the top jobs. Conversely, you may want YOUR group to be the top dogs so you can justify giving them all the high risk stuff. My standard answer will always be: whatever you need for your game.

[raggedhalo]

JackPoint is stated to be smaller than ShadowSEA, and has around 100 posters.  So Seattle's runner population (400BP and up) is probably around 500 or so, out of a population of c.6mil.  Your actual prime runners might be a much smaller number than that, but Seattle in particular is swimming in runners.

[Critias]

Keep in mind, though, these numbers should never be terribly static.  Just after KE took over in Seattle (and hordes of Lone Star tough guys were left without jobs, but with a certain set of skills), for instance, I'm sure there was a whole lot more low-to-middle grade meat on the market than usual, with crews of disgruntled Lone Star shooters looking to make ends meet and flip Knight Errant the bird from the shadows.  Certain job opportunities could also draw folks into Seattle from out of town (just like many sourcebooks offer up "limited time offer" plot ideas in various hotspots around the globe), which could throw off these sort of numbers significantly.

Likewise, just after some momentous shadow-events (anything that causes a major law enforcement crackdown, several published adventures that would make headlines left and right, etc), I'm sure all kinds of shadowrunners are scattering like roaches, abandoning Seattle to temporary hidey-holes or secondary towns, working for peanuts as they lay low, wallowing in cover identities, etc, etc.

So toss around numbers that make some sense, sure...but in the end, the number of runners in Seattle amounts to "however many the GM needs, to tell a cool story," and it can still make sense. 

[The Cat]

I would actually put the Shadowrunner numbers in Seattle as being fairly high especially with the barrens as a constant hidey-hole and recruiting center.  Seattle has something like 6 million people and if the criminal population is 3% (today's known US criminal population percentage ignoring misdemeanors, give or take a bit, based on those that get caught) with only 10% that being on "crews" rather than soloers, that's still something like 180,000 criminals and 18,000 part-time to full-time crew members and if only 1 to 10% of those are prime runners (400+ points) that's still 180-1,800 prime runners in Seattle).

In theory, "hot" cities for runners would have even higher numbers and Seattle in particular could have a much higher criminal population thanks to the Barrens and Ork Underground.

[wraith]

I've always seen the limiter on the number of Prime Runners being the amount of work that would be lucrative enough to get them interested.  After all, Fastjack's not going to bother getting a fresh soykaf over a 2k ¥ datasteal out of some rinky-dink single-A.

[The Cat]

I've always seen the limiter on the number of Prime Runners being the amount of work that would be lucrative enough to get them interested.  After all, Fastjack's not going to bother getting a fresh soykaf over a 2k ¥ datasteal out of some rinky-dink single-A.

I've always operated under the assumption that Prime Runners (the "Name Brand" guys) do very little work for other people, a few jobs a year tops.  Their jobs are big and expensive, sure, but they also carry higher risks and attract a lot of high profile attention meaning more cool-down/recovery time to let the heat die off and the higher pay means they can take longer downtimes.  Their big thing would be working for themselves, creating their own work.  Prime Runner A hears about Widget 1 and enlists his team to go get it with the knowledge that some corp (almost any corp) will eventually buy it without any corporation hiring them.

In my mind, Prime Runner teams would operate like mob crews.  90% of the time, they're on their own, creating their own work and kicking back appropriately to their contacts without anyone employing them.  Their working their own projects, gathering their own intel or doing a favor for the local board sysop.  The other 10% of the time they have to do a little job for the boss (or in the case of runners, pick up an especially juicy job from a Johnson).

That being the case, a city the size of Seattle, Denver or New York, especially the SR versions with the corp infighting, dystopian outlook and cloak-and-dagger politics going on, would support largish numbers of high quality crews since the high quality guys are only taking the tip-of-the-crop best and highest paying jobs with their primary income being self-generated.

To go back to the mob example and drag in a real world example, a small town near where I grew up had a population of around 4,000.  In the early 90s the state police and the feds finally got around to cracking down on mob activity and grabbed up, tried and convicted over 200 people from that little town.  But only about a dozen or so were IN the mob, the rest were 3 to 5 man crews operating in the mobs turf generating their own jobs with little to no input from the people in charge and kicking back a percentage to the mob for the privilege and to get the "real mob" to cover their butts.  5% of the town's population were working for or with the mob and had done so for decades (since the 50s and 60s in many cases) and that's ignoring the businesses and business men who were otherwise clean that were working with the mob to fence goods or tossing them info.  The town's economy collapsed when the mob was broken up because they were bringing in so much money and were so necessary to how things operated.  Many of these guys had been doing it for 30 or 40 years, in SR terms they were well over 400 point characters thanks to just longevity and a tiny little town of 4,000 with a single major highway running close to it was more than enough to support their needs.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Its an interesting question since you first have to determine what qualifies as a 'runner. Is that someone who earns the majority of their income from freelance illegal work? In that case, every burglar, every muscle for hire is a 'runner. Is a Prime Runner who does three jobs a year, scoping out his own opportunities, a shadowrunner? What about the corp kid who has a second identity and does it for the thrills? Is an underground simsense star who goes on runs to record them a runner?

Now, ignoring the fuzzy definition, here's a few bases (basises?) I'd use to come up with the number. Figure that every Double A has 1-2 full time Johnsons. Every Triple A probably has 3-5. That cadre makes up 50-75% of the people looking for runner contracts. One off Johnsons with personal scores, gang work, runs for smaller corps etc make up most of the rest. Other runners doing Hood work for their neighborhood etc round it out. So generally speaking the employer pool is somewhere between 75 and 150. Each of them knows a (ballpark statistical average) 2 Fixers. So the Fixer population is very roughly 150 to 300. Now there's a lot of overlap in that many runners know more than one Fixer. Figure each Fixer, though, probably knows at least two guys who can fill in each major position, or two full teams depending on how you look at it, call it 10 runners. So that comes out in the 1,500-3,000 range of more or less full time more or less freelance runners who are competent enough to not have to beg for work. Count in the up and comers hoping for a break and doing scrub work in the meantime and the number at least doubles. Add in gang members and Barrens kids who want to be runners and could be with the right training and you at least double it again. Now since Seattle is a known Runner haven which draws talent and has a higher than average portion of stuff going on, those numbers could easily be doubled. In particular, the number of runners a Fixer has on call in this example sound low.

Compared to the crime figures above, that means that qualified Runners make up about 1 in 60 criminals is a competent professional 'runner and 1 in 15 are involved in the runner scene in some way and THAT number sounds about right to me. Your average Barrens kid might know one or two real runners and five or ten people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

[Grendel]

Wow! I knew there would be posts and assumed everyone would have something worthwhile to contribute, but this is incredible!
I'm especially intrigued with The Cat's thinking, and Critias in a single sentence gave me a huge source to draw from that I had not even remotely considered.

In this case, I'm specifically defining Shadowrunners/Prime Runners as approximately "PC Level" characters who do the things that PC's do (the singular classic "deniable corporate espionage" tops the list, but there are a variety of lesser crimes and questionable activities below it). I set some general point ranges, but those are pretty mutable things.

Thank you kind folk!

[Nomad Zophiel]

My real reason for asking "what is a runner" is because its very easy to make a 400 BP character who goes on runs but isn't necessarily a classic shadowrunner. A good Face can do enough Fixing on the side to pick his runs, same for someone with Fame and a Day Job or any number of other combinations. If you look at the modern examples of Burn Notice and Leverage you see people who are clearly qualified Shadowrunners but pick their jobs instead of taking standard corp espionage for money. In my mind there are one or two of these Hood Runners for every mercenary freelancer.

[joe15552]

I love population calculations, so I'm going to give this one a whirl.

According to 6th world wiki, Seattle's approximate population in the 2070's is 6 million.
According to The CQ Press's report on  F.B.I. data in 2009, the crime rate in Seattle, Washington was 41. This means that 41 crimes were committed per 1000 members of the populace that year.

Now, Seattle in 2070 has no crime as we know it. We know crime as breaking the law, and the law is enforced by government agencies. In 2070, there is no government, and law enforcement is being paid to incarcerate whoever corporations pay to have incarcerated. In that environment, I am willing to bet that what American's view as crime in today's world is viewed as capitalization in  Shadowrun author's nifty view of 2070. But let's just pretend that lack of government and cultural revolution does not affect crime rate, and the crime rate remains the same.

With a population of six million people at the same crime rate of Seattle 2009, that means that 246,000 crimes would be committed in one year. Now keep in mind that these are the crimes that are detected or reported. Who knows how many that would be that were not reported? I'll just be generous again and say that all crimes are detected and reported.

If every single one of these crimes are detected and reported, and every single one of the criminals that committed these crimes were repeat offenders (shadowrunners), and committed 500 crimes per year, then that means that there would be around 500 shadowrunners in 2070. I believe that this number is too low to be accurate, and in my opinion should be considered the MINIMUM amount of shadowrunners. In my opinion, there were be around 50 thousand shadowrunners in Seattle. I came up with that number because I think about the cultural changes, the definition of crime changes, the lack of government, and the fact that shadowrunners are often not detected, not reported, and even ignored by law enforcement agencies in 2070. But let's stick to the 500 number.

A prime runner would be upper 10%, so that's 50 prime runners. I think that there would be more along the lines of five thousand prime runners in Seattle, but that's my humble opinion. But I think that there is no way there could be less than 50 prime runners in Seattle in 2070.

Edit: forgot to mention that 41 is an extremely low crime rate. One of the lowest in the US. By comparison, Saint Louis had a crime rate over 300 in 2009. I'd much rather walk down the worst street in Sount Louis than walk down the worst street I've heard described in Seattle 2070.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I'm suddenly imagining all those prime runners gathering together in one place and having a bar fight.

 

I don't think there would be anything standing within a few blocks of that location.