[Rooks]

You can slave a commlink to your cyberdeck.
The commlink is a device.
The cyberdeck is a device.
A device can be part of your PAN.
Your commlink may use your cyberdeck's matrix attributs when defending (if they are higher).

You can base your persona on your commlink
Your persona based on your commlink will use matrix attributes of your commlink.
Your persona based on your commlink cannot be slaved to the cyberdeck.
A persona cannot be part of your PAN.
Your persona based on your commlink may NOT use your cyberdeck's matrix attributes when defending.

Clear enough...?

Nope, then again neither is the rules for the matrix (never ever explicity says persona cannot be a slave but even so) If I have EvoTech Himitsu and I am controlling it directly and I slave  a Transys Avalon and someone starts hacking me, the Transys Avalon should be able to use its fire wall and device rating to defend against hacks then again the rules are a disjointed mess that need errataed badly

[Senko]

Here's a weirder situation if somone manages to hack into that transys avalon does it transform from a device to a persona as their using it and thus alert you to the hack since your himitsu pops up a notification "Transys Avalon disconnected due to Persona/Slave conflict"?

[Max Mustermann]

Hi to all,

Program Carrier Modification. Availability: 2. Cost, including parts, 1,400¥

one question, the program carrier modul is a cyberdeck modul, or? Can i put Cyberdeck modules in commlinks?

best regards Max

[Senko]

You can hardwire one in, from page 66.

Add a Module: You can hardwire a cyberdeck module into a device. You need the module you want to add to the device. Most devices can only have one module, although cyberdecks can have two—one in the normal module slot, and the one you hardwire in. Hardwired modules follow the same rules as normal modules (p.64). This requires two packs of parts.

A commlink is a device therefore you can hardwire one cyberdeck module into it e.g. the program carrier module. Just remember unless its a cyberdeck you can only have one and it means you can't have any other modules so for any sleeze/attack programs to work you'd need to also have a sleeze or attack dongle.

[Xenon]

...never ever explicity says persona cannot be a slave...

Yes it does. It explicitly say that only a device can be a slave. Please read PANs and WANs. I even quoted it for you. The book is clear on this.

I have EvoTech Himitsu and I am controlling it directly and I slave  a Transys Avalon and someone starts hacking me, the Transys Avalon should be able to use its fire wall and device rating....

If you base your persona on the Evotech then your persona (which is not a device so it can not be slaved) will have a firewall rating of 2. If your persona is attacked then your persona will defend with a firewall rating of 2. It will also have a sleaze attribute of 5 so you can now take illegal sleaze matrix actions.

If you base your persona on the Transys Avalon then your persona (which is not a device so it cannot be slaved) will appear in the matrix as a monarch. The monarch will have a firewall rating of 6 but it will not have a sleaze rating (unless you modify the link or attach a sleaze module).

If you could slave a persona to a device or host (which you can't!) then all spiders would run around with host rating firewalls all the time and deckers would always set their firewall lowest and just slave their persona to a high rating commlink. If you could slave a device or a persona to a persona (you can't!) then a TM would use edge to compile and register a high level courier sprite and slave all her devices and even her living persona to it for level+3 sleaze and level+2 firewall while defending.

[Rooks]

...never ever explicity says persona cannot be a slave...

Yes it does. It explicitly say that only a device can be a slave. Please read PANs and WANs. I even quoted it for you. The book is clear on this.

I have EvoTech Himitsu and I am controlling it directly and I slave  a Transys Avalon and someone starts hacking me, the Transys Avalon should be able to use its fire wall and device rating....

If you base your persona on the Evotech then your persona (which is not a device so it can not be slaved) will have a firewall rating of 2. If your persona is attacked then your persona will defend with a firewall rating of 2. It will also have a sleaze attribute of 5 so you can now take illegal sleaze matrix actions.

If you base your persona on the Transys Avalon then your persona (which is not a device so it cannot be slaved) will appear in the matrix as a monarch. The monarch will have a firewall rating of 6 but it will not have a sleaze rating (unless you modify the link or attach a sleaze module).

If you could slave a persona to a device or host (which you can't!) then all spiders would run around with host rating firewalls all the time and deckers would always set their firewall lowest and just slave their persona to a high rating commlink. If you could slave a device or a persona to a persona (you can't!) then a TM would use edge to compile and register a high level courier sprite and slave all her devices and even her living persona to it for level+3 sleaze and level+2 firewall while defending.

Oh ok so personas have a fire wall rating and a data processing rating automatically and hosts are physical devices that spiders directly log in to also why the hell does a quarter of a millon dollar piece of hardware have lower matrix condition and a fire wall/dataprocessing rating than a smart phone that costs a fraction of the cost?

[Xenon]

Oh ok so personas have a fire wall rating and a data processing rating automatically

They have the same matrix attributes that the device they are based on. A persona based on a cyberdeck will for example have all four matrix attributes...

and hosts are physical devices that spiders directly log in to

No, you log into a grid. Hosts are virtual matrix only entities that you can enter from the grids (they exists on all grids at once).

also why the hell does a quarter of a millon dollar piece of hardware have lower matrix condition and a fire wall/dataprocessing rating than a smart phone that costs a fraction of the cost?

A standard cyberdeck have same or higher matrix ratings than a standard commlink, if you compare two that have same device rating that is.

The cyberdeck is more expensive because, unlike a standard commlink, a cyberdeck can run an agent, common cyberprograms, hacker cyberprograms, alter it's matrix attribute array on the fly, have both an attack- and sleaze-rating, come with a wire that can be used to bypass host ratings on slaved devices and have a cyberdeck module slot.

[JackVII]

No, you log into a grid. Hosts are virtual matrix only entities that you can enter from the grids (they exists on all grids at once).

Just a point of clarification, but a host exists on a specific grid, you just don't have to be on the same grid to log into one.

Each host is on a specific grid

Once you're inside, the grid you're on doesn't matter (unless it's the public grid, in which case you still suffer the -2 penalty to Matrix Actions).

Otherwise, I think your points are 100% accurate Xenon.

[RiggerBob]

You can slave a commlink to your cyberdeck.
The commlink is a device.
The cyberdeck is a device.
A device can be part of your PAN.
Your commlink may use your cyberdeck's matrix attributs when defending (if they are higher).

You can base your persona on your commlink
Your persona based on your commlink will use matrix attributes of your commlink.
Your persona based on your commlink cannot be slaved to the cyberdeck.
A persona cannot be part of your PAN.
Your persona based on your commlink may NOT use your cyberdeck's matrix attributes when defending.

If that's true:

A rigger slaves his drones to a RCC
A rigger goes online forming a persona on the RCC which replaces the RCC device in the matrix
A persona cannot be part of a PAN
The drones are not slaved anymore and he can't use the features of the RCC.

Makes sense... 

And a decker loses his ability to help his team with matrix security by slaving their commlinks the moment he goes online... 


If you don't include 'personas based on a device' to the things that can be part of a PAN or WAN the whole setting and rules make absolutely no sense. 

[Xenon]

For all we know the physical device is still slaved to the physical device, even if the matrix device icon is merged into your persona icon if you later form your persona on it.

But yes the whole device icon merge into your persona icon is something i still don't fully grasp (what if you enter a host - is there now really no way to mark your commlink except going into the same host??)

[JackVII]

Personally, I think the whole "your persona icon subsumes the device icon" thing is totally unnecessary. Strip that part out and everything works great. Commlinks/Decks can still serve as masters and they don't disappear from the rest of the matrix if you enter a Host. It opens up the possibility that you could be attacked from multiple sources (IC in a host, security decker on the grid) but you already potentially have that problem if you run an agent.

[RiggerBob]

Personally, I think the whole "your persona icon subsumes the device icon" thing is totally unnecessary. Strip that part out and everything works great. Commlinks/Decks can still serve as masters and they don't disappear from the rest of the matrix if you enter a Host. It opens up the possibility that you could be attacked from multiple sources (IC in a host, security decker on the grid) but you already potentially have that problem if you run an agent.

/signed

[Rooks]

You can slave a commlink to your cyberdeck.
The commlink is a device.
The cyberdeck is a device.
A device can be part of your PAN.
Your commlink may use your cyberdeck's matrix attributs when defending (if they are higher).

You can base your persona on your commlink
Your persona based on your commlink will use matrix attributes of your commlink.
Your persona based on your commlink cannot be slaved to the cyberdeck.
A persona cannot be part of your PAN.
Your persona based on your commlink may NOT use your cyberdeck's matrix attributes when defending.

If that's true:

A rigger slaves his drones to a RCC
A rigger goes online forming a persona on the RCC which replaces the RCC device in the matrix
A persona cannot be part of a PAN
The drones are not slaved anymore and he can't use the features of the RCC.

Makes sense... 

And a decker loses his ability to help his team with matrix security by slaving their commlinks the moment he goes online... 


If you don't include 'personas based on a device' to the things that can be part of a PAN or WAN the whole setting and rules make absolutely no sense. 

More like Rigger slaves his drones to his RCC making RCC the master device and creates a special rigger style PAN  where the RCC manages several parallel connections at once, so you can give a command to one, all, of the slave drones with the same Simple Action and this parallel multi-connection also lets you jump from one slaved drone to another without first jumping out of the drone you’re leaving or rebooting the device because your persona was removed from it. The special RCC PAN also allows a slaved device to use either its own or its master’s Rating for each Rating in the test but if you get a mark on the device you also get a mark on the RCC

Now when it comes to security spider riggers they dont use PANs but WANs
with multiple devices slaved to a host. This is the world of
that special kind of rigger, the security spider. They slave
their RCC to the building’s host and connect to the entire
security system, including all of its slaved drones. When
you’re inside a host, your effective “physical distance” to
drones slaved to that host becomes zero, even if you’re
on the other side of the world. The spider-rigger is often
teamed up with a spider-decker to help against hacking
intrusions on the security system.

So you can Slave a RCC to a host provided you are a security rigger spider

my understanding is the persona is the "Soul" of a entity in the matrix the device (which can be one of four things, a commlink a cyberdeck a RCC or a device that has been modified to accept a persona firmware) and is the physical representation of said persona in the meat world

icons are a matrix representation of devices in the matrix with no persona attached to it

So with that in mind I supposed you can only slave devices to a deckers cyberdeck for defense and either turn your commlink wifi off or turn it off completely or get a throw away so you dont stand out too much in public as someone without a persona and a back up when your decker isnt running matrix defense for you (course considering it all wireless you and your decker dont have to be close in even in the same continent for the decker to defend your devices running wireless which provides and interesting opportunity to have these deckers hire out their services to run matrix protection against other cyber attacks

[Rooks]

Oh ok so personas have a fire wall rating and a data processing rating automatically

They have the same matrix attributes that the device they are based on. A persona based on a cyberdeck will for example have all four matrix attributes...

and hosts are physical devices that spiders directly log in to

No, you log into a grid. Hosts are virtual matrix only entities that you can enter from the grids (they exists on all grids at once).

also why the hell does a quarter of a millon dollar piece of hardware have lower matrix condition and a fire wall/dataprocessing rating than a smart phone that costs a fraction of the cost?

A standard cyberdeck have same or higher matrix ratings than a standard commlink, if you compare two that have same device rating that is.

The cyberdeck is more expensive because, unlike a standard commlink, a cyberdeck can run an agent, common cyberprograms, hacker cyberprograms, alter it's matrix attribute array on the fly, have both an attack- and sleaze-rating, come with a wire that can be used to bypass host ratings on slaved devices and have a cyberdeck module slot.

oh ya, so for your consideration:
Transys Avalon 6 12 5,000¥

3000 in packs add attribute

The Increase a Matrix Attribute modification
can later be added to this modification

Packs to increase attribute 1000

Matrix attribute Dongle 3 27000

Total cost 36000 Matrix attributes Data processing 6 Firewall 6 Attack 4 Stealth 2/Stealth 4 Attack 2 Matrix condition boxes 9
+21 000 if you want +1 rating dongle so 57000

vs

Microdeck Summit attribute array 4 3 3 1 programs 1  3R 58,000¥ Matrix condition boxes 8 or 9 if you round up

Microtrónica Azteca 200 Attribute array 5 4 3 2 programs 2 110,250¥ Matrix condition boxes 9

Hermes Chariot Attribute array 5 4 4 2 programs 2 123,000¥ Matrix condition boxes 9

Microtrónica Azteca 300 Attribute array 7 5 3 1 programs 3 9R 200,000¥ Matrix condition boxes 8 or 9 if you round up

Shiawase Cyber-4 Attribute array 8 6 4 2 Programs 3 12R 331,000¥ Matrix condition boxes 10

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Personally, I think the whole "your persona icon subsumes the device icon" thing is totally unnecessary. Strip that part out and everything works great. Commlinks/Decks can still serve as masters and they don't disappear from the rest of the matrix if you enter a Host. It opens up the possibility that you could be attacked from multiple sources (IC in a host, security decker on the grid) but you already potentially have that problem if you run an agent.

That would mean that your Commlink could be attacked at 2 separate places from the Matrix as well as why would you ever do it in the first place??? The Matrix Rules make total sense (not counting the atrocious Techomancer bullshit) for Deckers & Devices. All the issues that people are claiming to have are from having problems breaking the rules with obvious gaming the system if not just outright trying to cheat it. There are a lot of cool things introduced in Data Trails for Deckers & non Deckers (though TMs get the shafts since there's supposed to be a Splatbook coming out for them.) But doing things like trying to string 3 Commlinks together with Dongles & Modifications to get Cyberdecks IS NOT something that they were EVER trying to achieve!!!