[zarzak]

Well, I checked in with my GM. He rejected me using the SecureTech PPP with the Urban explorer armor, citing it being a jumpsuit as counting as being full body. Can't really say I disagree with him on that one. I'm waiting to hear back about the forearm guards, hopefully those will go through.

Big Game hunter is kinda outside my budget unless I want to start dropping 'ware, its looking more and more like I'm locked into my final configuration as is.

My current attributes are:
Body 5 + 3 From Used Titanium bone lacing for DMG resistance test
Agility 6
Reaction 5 +2 from Synaptic Booster
Strength 3
Will 4
Logic 2
Intuition 5
Charisma 2

I don't want to pull any more logic and/or charisma for the will power (and definitely not strength), so I'm thinking that's pretty much done. Reaction and Intuition to for initiatve (along with the Synaptic booster +2D6), Agility for combat, and body and armor for enduring damage. I want to keep logic to help with armorer tests, and Charisma is useful for etiquette. I just need to rejigger my skills listing (i was told Etiquette 5 was overkill, maybe split that into Ettiquette and intimidation or something. I'll figure it out then post the latest configuration.

I'd drop Will by 1 and push it to Strength - having Will 4 isn't really doing much for you that Will 3 would do ...

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

You could get Aluminum Bone Lacing, Orthoskin 3, Wired Reflexes 2, & Used Reaction Enhancers 3. You would be moving 3 dice from your Damage Resistance Test to your Defense Test & increase your Initiative by 3. It would also save you ¥20,750... could buy some better armor with that. Like a Sleeping Tiger & Synergist Line Coat... throw on some Forearm Guards and you'd be at a very stylish 17 Armor (22 total w/29 Damage Resistance after a 15 Defense Test)

Of course going Sum to Ten A Resources B Attributes B Skills E Magic E Metatype would be even better. That way you could do Restricted Gear (Beta) Wired Reflexes & add Used Muscle Toner 3 as well.... having about 50k more than you do now.

B 5 [2]
A 6 (9)
R 5 (10)
S 3 (15 KARMA)
W 3
L 2 (10 KARMA)
I 5
C 1
EDG 3
ESS  .275
Ini 15+3d6

You could even upgrade to put Alpha Titanium Bone Lacing (.2 essence more that ABL) in for ¥36,000 after a few runs. Alpha Orthoskin 4 would cost ¥28,800 after that. So you'll still get all the ware you wanted in the end but +3 AGI & + 3 REA. It's a much better & cheaper upgrade path.

[JakeConhale]

For some reason, the idea of not making attributes A leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Also, I fail to see why a soldier would wish to fight in a business suit. Stylish, perhaps if he was infiltrating a classy event rather than being in the middle of an all-out brawl it would work better. This character isn't a face. I do not wish to give up my Edge, both for live-saving purposes as well as fuel for Common Sense.

I am not doing Sum To Ten, not in this instance. I do not wish to do Restricted Gear as I see it as wasting karma on nuyen. I cannot confirm the math on your listed attributes, I believe you only used 19 additional points rather than 20 (and edge would be 2, not 3). Thank you for the suggestion but no.

I am, however, going to switch my strength and willpower, if what is said is true about Willpower 3 being functionally equivalent to Willpower 4 with regards to stun, then that will give me sufficient strength to carry forearm guards, securetech PPP legs, a helmet, and an armor vest (in case i need to ditch the lined coat). Total armor: 4+3+13 = 20. And this way I get to keep the smartlink and datajack AND have an essence above 1.0.


------------------
Attributes (A):
------------------
Body   5+3 (Bone lacing on DMG resistance tests)
Agility   6
React   5+2 (Synaptic Booster)
Strength   4
Willpow   3
Logic   3
Intuit   3
Char   3
Edge (Human - D)   5

Initiative: 10 +3D6 (2 from Synaptic Booster)
Mental - 4
Physical - 8
Social - 4

------------------
Qualities (Negative):
------------------
Big Regret - Unintentional civilian massacre, being blackmailed about it by Mathis - French embassy contact
Day Job (10 hours - Bartender)
Dependents (slacker sister - "Caroline")
Driven (on finding a "Benedict Arnold" style traitor from his old unit, reunion will involve lots of sharp, red-hot, pointy things)
National SIN (France)
National SIN (UCAS)

------------------
Qualities (positive)
------------------
Bilingual (French)
Common Sense
Jack of All Trades
Perceptive I
Toughness

Post-character creation:
Firefight - Close quarters defense against firearms
Quick healer

------------------
Contacts:
------------------
Bounty Hunter - "Electra Coyote"   Con:2   Loy:3 (Can act as a fixer and knowledge resource on the criminal underworld)
France Embassy Official - "Mathis"   Con:3   Loy:1 (is blackmailing my char into being an intelligence asset, but occasionally provides support to engender some goodwill)

------------------
Skills (C):
------------------
(5) Etiquette
(6) Automatics - Spec: Assault rifle
(5) Heavy weapons
(5) Sneaking
(5) Perception - Spec: Visual
(1) outdoors (group) - survival(W), navigation(I), tracking(I)
(1) Athletics (group) - gymnastics(A), running(S), swimming(S)

Post creation skills:
(1) Intimidation
(3) Unarmed
(3) Armorer - primarily used to repair armor

------------------
Items (B)
------------------
(1) Armor Vest
(1) Helmet
(1) Forearm Guards
(1) SecureTech PPP Legs kit
(1) Contacts
[1 - Contacts] Vision: Flare
[1 - Contacts] Vision: image
[1 - Contacts] Vision: Low light
(1) Lined coat
(1) Earbuds
(1) Ballistic Mask (Modified William Shatner mask, if anyone gets that reference...)

(1) Datajack (used)
(1) Smartlink (used, implant in natural eye)
(1) Bone Lacing (Used)   Titanium
(1) Lvl2 Synaptic Booster (Standard)
(1) Lvl4 Dermal plating (Used)

(5) Credstick (standard)
(1) subvocal microphone
(1) Hermes Ikon commlink

(1) Ares Alpha Assault rifle
(1) Ares Crusader II Machine pistol
(1) Gas-Vent III (Assault rifle)

(1) sling (assault rifle)
(1) Quickdraw holster (machine pistol)
(1) bayonet (assault rifle)
           
(16) Regular (MP) x10
(90) Regular (assault) x10
(4) Gel rounds (MP) x10
(1) Flash-pak
(2) Spare clip (MP)
(2) Spare clip (assault rifle)
         
(1) Survival knife
(1) shock gloves

(1) kit [armorer]
           
(1) Lvl 4 Fake license (Restricted Cyberware)
(1) Lvl 4 Fake license (Restricted Bioware)   
(1) Lvl 4 Fake license (Firearms)
(1) Lvl 4 Fake license (Concealed Carry)
(1) Lvl 4 Fake sin ("Pierre Devereaux")
(4) Restraints   Metal
(1) survival kit
(1) Flashlight (standard)

(2) Drug: Cram
(2) Drug: Jazz
(1) lifestyle (low)      -   2200 per month
(1) Spoof chip + Morph plate
(1) Suzuki Mirage - gunmetal gray)

Starting nuyen - 820

------------------
Knowledge skills
------------------
(4) Military Procedures (Foreign Legion)
(2) Sports - Cricket
(2) DeeCee Arms Dealers
(2) DeeCee Drug Dealers
(2) DeeCee Money Launderers

post char creation knowledge:
(1) Small Unit Tactics (as flavor, if not necessarily practical, I'll clear with my GM who disallowed any benefits from using the actual tactics)

Total remaining karma: 0
Total 'ware augmented armor: +7 (4: Ortho, 3 BL)

------------------
Gear wishlist:
------------------

• Medkit
• biomonitor
• Grenades
• Second skin (stacked with Biker Armor)
• Ear Damper implant
• Spacial recognizer, either ear implant or in biker helmet
• Fly-Spy drone

My plan is to slowly replace my used cyberware with alphaware, starting with the cheap things like the datajack and reuse some of the spent essence. Definitely going to replace the lined coat with an electrochromic one ASAP - the better to avoid traffic cams and whatnot. I upgraded the strength to 4 so now I can wear the helmet, forearm guards, and legs kit along with room to expand to the vitals kit if, for whatever reason, I happen to be caught without the vest. Might be going a touch overboard with that, but it's there,  Really, I plan on getting the Riot armor next, but we'll see.

Unless there are any glaring flaws, I'll submit this to my GM and pray to the Gods of Gaming he doesn't find issue with it.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Alright dude... it's cool. I gave you a build that has clearly superior Stats, better ware, better skills, & better upgrade path to your ware... he fights better & goes first barring the unluckyest of 3d6 rolls. This dude slaughters as well as being a great sneak if you want. Enjoy your worse stats and poor use of ware... I'm done.

[Top Dog]

A bit harsh there, Zhoul. Besides, your build is illegal - you can't use Restricted Gear to get Betaware augmentations -  you can't get Betaware during chargen, and Restricted Gear only lifts the availability restriction. And your character ends with 1 less logic and 2 less charisma (to 1!). Those might not be optimized, but I understand the guy wanting a relatively smart and charismatic character for roleplay reasons - that's not a bad thing. Also 2 less edge.

Although your first lineup in that post is not a bad idea - getting some extra defense at the cost of armor is generally a good thing anyway.

Jake, a soldier would fight in a business suit for the same reason anyone does - it offers the best protection you can get without also appearing as some sort of maniac. They offer better protection then a lined coat (some even better then an armor vest), and in many areas of town, running around in an armor vest will get you some strange stares at the least. Conversly, running around in a suit in the bad areas of town will... well they'll stare at you strangely there anyway so it's not that big of a downside (ideally, of course, you have two or more sets of armor for both - but that's a later concern).
I mean, I get you don't want to for style reasons; just know what you're giving up. Besides, depending on your backstory and with a lenient GM you might be able to get a more army-style suit.
(If you do stick with the armor vest, do please buy something you can wear in semi-polite company so you at least have some protection when you meet the Johnsons. A lined coat would be fine there.)

You don't need STR4 to get the +4 to armor, if I recall correctly - you only get a penalty for every two full points of bonus armor you have above STR. So you can have +4 with a STR3. (That depends on how your GM reads the terrible line in the armor encumbrance section though - you can read it as if you are capped to +3, in which case the whole agi/rea penalty never occurs. The rules are strange like that sometimes). At any rate, you're better off putting that into INT or something anyway (+1 defense and intiative and perception is better then a point in an attribute you barely use).

You still have some spare cash - I'd get some microgrenades to start out with, just so you have a wildcard when things go wrong. You have the launcher on your Ares and the skill already anyway. You should also think about getting some Gel Rounds for the Ares - Stun is quite often a better option in the field, and you at least want the option.

[Novocrane]

you can read it as if you are capped to +3, in which case the whole agi/rea penalty never occurs

Or you can read it such that the natural bonus counts toward your Agi/Rea penalty, while the capped bonus counts towards your armour.

[Top Dog]

you can read it as if you are capped to +3, in which case the whole agi/rea penalty never occurs

Or you can read it such that the natural bonus counts toward your Agi/Rea penalty, while the capped bonus counts towards your armour.

I guess. Although that would not be my interpretation.

At any rate, I'm sure there's discussions on this topic somewhere in the bowels of these forums. But even in the interpretation where you're limited to +3 armor (with STR 3), going INT 4 would probably be better - the loss of armor is offset by a gain in defense, and you also gain initiative and perception.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

you can read it as if you are capped to +3, in which case the whole agi/rea penalty never occurs

Or you can read it such that the natural bonus counts toward your Agi/Rea penalty, while the capped bonus counts towards your armour.

I guess. Although that would not be my interpretation.

At any rate, I'm sure there's discussions on this topic somewhere in the bowels of these forums. But even in the interpretation where you're limited to +3 armor (with STR 3), going INT 4 would probably be better - the loss of armor is offset by a gain in defense, and you also gain initiative and perception.

Good catch... I forgot that it was a houserule since 4th edition on Restricted Gear. The whole point being that if you are spending 10 Positive Quality points to break Chargen rules, you get to break Chargen rules. But thus dude obviously doesn't care about his Defense Tests, Initiative, or Perception tests... the only thing that is important is Damage Resistance rolls but not having the best armor or Metatype to do it. Going Troll at B, Attributes A, Skills C, & Resources D coupled with the In Debt NQ to afford  (U)TBL, (U)Othro 4 & eating Kamikaze for dice (since 9 Body & 3/4 Will can easily handle the Addiction Tests) would let him have way higher Damage Resistance dice pools. Since that's the only thing that he cares about, carrying a Shield & SMG in combat could conceivably get him a Dice pool of 40ish!!!! Hence why I can't see any way of helping... making characters that are close to what he wants when in reality to achieve his true goal requires a different build.

[JakeConhale]

I'm going to stay with human and, upon further review, keep the current assortment of 'ware. Good armor, good initiative bonus, AND I start with a full quarter of my essence left in case anything interesting comes along in that augmentation book you mention. Elf is a close second, admittedly - I could get Agility 7 and have better overall attributes, and  low-light vision would save me some nuyen from the contacts, but the loss of 4 edge just isn't attractive - it would take 70 karma to restore.

I have a troll character in mind for the next one, want to refine that one a bit before implementing. Everyone seems to groan at my name for the char though - the "Sioux Chef". Tribal history, cannibal, street samurai, speaks in two word sentences. Why does he run? "Do runs. Make money. Buy Restaurant. Serve man. Man tasty..."

Point taken about the business suit, what I mean is that I doubt it would be his go-to item given the opportunity, but I'll review, the primary objective of a soldier is to complete the mission and return home alive after all. Not a bad police deterrent, I suppose - low lifestyle bartender by day, stylish suit wearing shadowrunner by night. I added the extra strength before realizing the PPP vitals was explicitly incompatible with the armor vest. Good to have, but I may just save the nuyen from the Vitals kit in case there's any last minute item to purchase when we actually do the run. (which, I honestly have no idea when that will be)

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

You keep taking Drugs.... DRUGS DO NOT STACK WITH SYNAPTIC BOOSTER!!! On top of that... Jazz is the 2nd worst drug after Novacoke, that's 2 separate Addiction tests of 8 dice & 6 dice to hit threshold 3. You will be spending all your Edge rolls to not be burnt out in 2 months with that. Cram is a bit better though still totally pointless since you get ZERO benefit & will be sinking your Edge into the Addiction Tests since that a 6 dice pool to hit threshold 3 every other month. Wired Reflexes is only an Augmentation Reaction & Initiative incompatibility  (except wireless Reaction Enhancers) but still fine with Initiative Enhancement through spells & drugs. There are threads on here devoted to this issue... in the Rules section look for the "5th reaction adjustments" on pg 4 (iirc) is the chart of stacks with what that includes everything on Reaction & Initiative.

[JakeConhale]

GM override - I asked and he shares my viewpoint that synaptic booster is only incompatible with other ware like wired reflexes. Drugs will function fine. Now, yes, the addiction tests may be a point of concern, I'll review. That's one mechanism I've never had to study in depth.

Also, please stop yelling at me, it isn't causing me to be more receptive to your suggestions, quite the opposite in fact.

[Hobbes]

Addiction to combat drugs shouldn't be a problem in most games.  Usually some mage will eventually demand a month off for initiation and you can detox on a beach somewhere.  Assuming you're not starting out with it anyway.

Also, Ares Wild Hunt.  Not the Heavy Armor, basically an Armored Jacket with a few nice perks.  Run and Gun P. 63.  Handy for juggling drugs, grenades, and different ammo types.  Turning a simple action into a Free action is really handy sometimes.  Plus its a strong Military theme and it works fine with all the other + Armor  gear you'll be humping around. 

I would put the Etiquette 5 into Unarmed and pick up Etiquette post gen.  Can you specialize in shock gloves?  I'd go Unarmed 4 and specialize in whatever the heck shock gloves are. 

Also consider Lockpicking and Pilot ground vehicle of one or two post gen.  Easy and handy skills.  And if you can scare up a couple thousand nuyen the Microdrones are handy disposable critters. 

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Well then there's no reason not to take Synaptic Booster since your GM is willing to throw Balance out the window. Just weird that he would make such a Power Gaming call while at the same time saying that Big Game Hunter is Full Body Armor which it's not. It's the Wild Hunt Jacket that incorporates a Ballistic Mask essentially. Usually GMs make calls going in one general direction in my experience, hence why I kept trying to point out the Rules. But if it's a crapshoot on how he's going to use GM Fiat... congrats on figuring out ways that he'll allow you to game the system.

[Hobbes]

A lot of tables let drugs stack with other boosts because the wording for some boosts are a bit vague.  It hasn't been specifically squashed, so its pretty common.  And Big Game Hunter is "heavy" armor.  *shrug*  For whatever value "heavy" armor is.  Social penalties, strange looks, and getting stopped by security or law enforcement.

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, there's a weird combo where Wired Reflexes stack with drugs, but Reaction Enhancers don't, so using the two in combination with wireless bonuses wouldn't seem to also stack with drugs.

I'd say it's ridiculous to get histrionic on here about "balance" given that WR provides the same exact benefits as SB level for level, but is more expensive in Essence and can stack with drugs when used on its own. There's little logic to it. Occam's Razor with this edition leads me to believe it's just poor editing, not intentional "balancing."