[Top Dog]

That's not a prefab module, Xenon - it's just a commlink with 5 Sleaze. You can add another module to that.

(Of course, we already know how Razhul got the 10 Sleaze - it's a hideously expensive cyberdeck that he got for cheap).

[Xenon]

Not sure I follow. Why doesn't the commlink have a module hardwird into the board when the text say "the commlink has a stealth module integrated into the board"?

[Top Dog]

Because there's no "stealth module" in the module section to be hardwired in that way - it's a different concept with the same name.

Besides, even if it was, the rule is that devices can only have one modification. That can be used to hardwire a module, or different things - but devices that have a module already (like a cyberdeck) can have a second one modified in.

[Xenon]

When you hardwire something it become integrated into the board.
Hardwire:
"To implement (a capability) through logic circuitry that is permanently connected within a computer and therefore not subject to change by programming."


All cyberdecks have one slot that accept one module.
The module in the cyberdeck module slot is not hardwired/integrated into the board.
"Inserting, removing, or swapping modules requires a Hardware + Logic [Mental] (1) Test and about half a minute of time (10 Combat Turns)."

An integrated module is a module that is hardwired into the board (the alternative would be a module you can insert, remove or swap).

Devices (including but not limited to cyberdecks) can only have one module hardwired/integrated into the board.
"Most devices can only have one module, although cyberdecks can have two—one in the normal module slot, and the one you hardwire in".
(they are not talking about "one modification" here - they are talking about one hardwired module + one module in a cyberdeck module slot)

The form factor EvoTech Himitsu Commlink already come fitted with a module. This module does not come in a cyberdeck slot. It come hardwired/integrated into the board.
"the commlink has a stealth module integrated into the board"


There is no specific rule that say this hardwired/integrated module would not count towards the general rule that limit all devices to one hardwired/integrated module per device.
There is no specific rule that say this commlink can accept two hardwired modules.


In the chapter "The guts of of the matrix" they frequently use the word "module" while actually talking about the key word "cyberdeck module".
Two pages earlier, still in "The guts of of the matrix", they also use the word "module" in the description of the EvoTech Himitsu.
They might or might not mean a "cyberdeck module" like the other ~20 times they used the word "module" elsewhere in "The guts of of the matrix".
They might or might not mean a different concept that is also named "module"
(this is similar to SR5 when they in some cases meant the key word "cyberprogram" but in many cases just typed "program").

[Herr Brackhaus]

I think you're reading too much into this one, Xenon.

This is the "what counts as an integral weapon modification" debate all over again. It has been clarified by developers that a weapon that comes with a silencer from the factory still has a free barrel slot for other modifications. I would presume the same applies to other gear such as commlinks.

[Xenon]

If there would have been a rule that you could only rebuild a weapon to integrate ONE firearm accessory into a firearm and that there would have been a custom weapon that already came modified with a firearm accessory integrated into the weapon.... then yes - I would argue that you cannot rebuild it to integrate a SECOND firearm accessory (unless otherwise noted).

There IS a rule that you can only hardwire one module into a commlink. This specific commlink already come with a hardwired module......

[Rooks]

If there would have been a rule that you could only rebuild a weapon to integrate ONE firearm accessory into a firearm and that there would have been a custom weapon that already came modified with a firearm accessory integrated into the weapon.... then yes - I would argue that you cannot rebuild it to integrate a SECOND firearm accessory (unless otherwise noted).

There IS a rule that you can only hardwire one module into a commlink. This specific commlink already come with a hardwired module......

So could you please explain in your own words how the EvoTech Himitsu has a sleaze 5 stealth module integrated into the commlink when adding a matrix attribute is considered one modification increasing a matrix attribute is another modification adding a module is another modification and that device can only have one modification

or even what a stealth module is the rules surrounding said stealth module and the book and page reference that explains what a stealth module is how I can get one and how I can integrate a stealth module to have a sleaze rating on a commlink even though the very existence of one refutes the rule paradigm outlayed later on in the pages of said book

[Xenon]

So could you please explain in your own words how the EvoTech Himitsu has a sleaze 5 stealth module integrated into the commlink....

It's an example of a non-standard form factor. They do all kinds of stuff you can't build yourself (because the build and repair rules of data trails are not detailed enough). You can't build a device rating 2 commlink with 7 firewall for just 2000, either. Shrug.

So this non-standard form factor comes with a module already hardwired into the board (so you cannot modify it to add another hardwired module).
From the looks of it it this module sacrifice half your data processing rating to gain 5 sleaze rating.
It seem to add +4 to the availability code (or maybe double the availability code) of the commlink. A commlink with this module become restricted.
It also seem to cost you about 10,300 ¥ extra.

Players are probably not supposed to build non-standard form factor commlinks. GMs are.

[Herr Brackhaus]

So this non-standard form factor comes with a module already hardwired into the board (so you cannot modify it to add another hardwired module).

I would like to point out that this is pure conjecture based on grammar and context which we know to be far from foolproof.

You assume that the description of the "hardwired module" means the commlink has been modified in some way. I assume this means the commlink comes from the factory with an integral module that does not count against the modification rules.

Both points of view are exactly that; points of view. This is one of those "talk to your GM" situations, because this question boils down interpretation more than anything else.

[Xenon]

Both points of view are exactly that; points of view.

Agreed. And in this particular case I might very well be wrong (but I don't think there are crystal clear evidence for either side - that's the main reason why i'm pushing it a bit further than i probably should).

The root cause of the confusion is that the author choose to use the word "module" instead of the key word "cyberdeck module" in about 20 other places in the same chapter. It then become confusing when/if they talk about a "module" that might or might not be a "cyberdeck module". Several examples of similar behavior in SR5 core. When it comes to the matrix chapter they used the word "program" on several locations instead of the key word "cyberprogram", causing the exact same confusion. It is not easy (or in some cases even possible) to figure out if they actually mean "cyberprogram", "commlink app", "pilot program", "autosoft" or whatnot - when they just write "program".

[Top Dog]

I do see your point of view, Xenon - and I think the term 'module' is not the best choice in the context indeed. Although I disagree with your ultimate conclusion; but it's not without it's merits.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Xenon... I agree that CGL really need to let 10 pedantic Rules Lawyers crunch these books before they get released. I'm sure that the play testers are smart, sensible, & reasonable people who do a decent job of play testing the balance of the game. But their editing & wording needs some serious clean up... I agree that this is another "Integral Weapon Accessory" modification case, it comes like that Stock so it doesn't qualify as a Modification (especially since their isn't even a Module that you could use) but the wording is poor. You are free to read it however you want but I think you might be "reading to much into it" in this case.  I do so love a bad pun!!!

[Senko]

I'm inclined to agree it doesn't count towards the modification limits. Decks after all have attack and sleeze (with variable ratings depending on set up) room for an insertable mod and one you hardwire in so I can't see it unreasonable that a himitsu had a stealth component added without taking up the usual connection slots otherwise it'd ship with an unfixable 2 matrix damage as per the increase an attribute rules.

[Elo_Ion]

So how does a device running  smoke and mirrors avoid the noise rating potentially making the device inoperable?
The noise rating must be less than the device rating to allow operation.

It's still a good addition though fair signal jammer will cause a stir.....
 
and noise is a negitive to dice pools also so the bonus is effectively cancled in wireless mode?

[Xenon]

If the noise generated is higher than the device rating, the device temporary loses any wireless bonus.

A commlink often have rather high device rating.
A commlink normally don't have a wireless bonus.