[zarzak]

I would say Otaku to TM is extremely worth it. Would you say a flat +2 to Drain that stacks with other sources for that wouldn't be worth it? I honestly feel like TMs are more dependent on Threading to do their thing than mages are to casting (since they can always just shoot a gun in combat) so it seems like a good quality to me especially if you want to throw CFs at higher levels or get higher level sprites.

I'd rather do Exceptional willpower (if you have 6 willpower) and move a stat point over to boost willpower to 7.  You spend 4 karma more, and you have 1 drain die less, but ... you get lots more benefits.

Otaku to Technomancer would be good later, I'd argue.

[Whiskeyjack]

I just hate the Exceptionals in general. Though Exceptional WIL I would actually consider for a TM because of how bad they could use it. Really the only worthwhile iteration of that PQ IMO.

TMs will continue to be screwed so long as they lack equivalents to traditions, foci, and mentor spirits. Again I am super shocked that Data Trails provided NONE of this.

[adzling]

The ninja one where you spend 1 edge point to remove all marks instantly seems rather useful....

Or do you just not get any marks on you in the first place?

[adzling]

Hokay titus here's another tweaked build for you.
You could of course substitute Automatics: Machine Pistol for Pistols:Semi-Automatic.

You could also swap out one or more Complex Forms and/ or swap out a specialization (for example Perception: Visual) for a Complex Form.

You're agility is pretty good so you should be ok at shooting stuff if push comes to shove (5agility+3pistols+2semi-auto+1smartlink) = 10 dice The bonus for a Machine Sprite running Diagnostics in your gun should add Sprite level x 2 /3 on average. So assuming level 4 or 5 Sprite thats an extra 3 dice on average.
13 dice for your shooty skill is ok for a backup shooty character like you (most of your time should be spent doing matrixy things or bricking gear imho).

If you purchase a pair of Vision Enhanced glasses you can get your Perception up around 14 which is ample.
Without the glasses you will have @10 perception for spotting things in the meatworld which is not bad.

I think this gives you what you were looking for (technomancer who can drive and infiltrate a bit).

Haven't spent any of your @$58,000 but that should be enough for basic equipment and two drones (see my previous post for drone recommendations).

cheers!

Aiko
METATYPE: HUMAN
B 2, A 5, R 4, S 1, W 6, L 5, I 5, C 4, ESS 6, EDG 3, R 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 11
Armor: 0
Limits: Physical 3, Mental 7, Social 7
Physical Initiative: 9+1D6
Matrix Initiative: 10+3D6
Active Skills: Athletics Group 1, Compiling 5, Computer 5, Cybercombat 5, Electronic Warfare 5, Hacking 6, Perception (Visual +2) 3, Pilot Ground Craft 3, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 3, Registering 5, Sneaking (Urban +2) 3, Software 6, Stealth Group 1
Knowledge Skills: Hong Kong Bars and Clubs 4, Hong Kong Local 6, Small Unit Tactics 6
Languages: Chinese N, English 4
Qualities: Addiction (Moderate): Coffee, Allergy, Common (Moderate): Alcohol, Focused Concentration (2), Ninja Vainsh, Otaku, Technomancer
Complex Forms: Puppeteer, Resonance Spike
Gear:
   Aiko w/ (1 month) Low Lifestyle
Contacts:
Bartender (Connection 3, Loyalty 2)
Fixer (Connection 4, Loyalty 3)

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
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[Whiskeyjack]

The ninja one where you spend 1 edge point to remove all marks instantly seems rather useful....

Unless you have multiple things with marks on you. It's only one at a time. And there are better things to use Edge for.

And it's better to not get detected at all.

Or do you just not get any marks on you in the first place?

This. TMs can't compete with deckers or IC in cybercombat.

[Hobbes]

Very nice. 

I'd suggest a Program carrier and a Rating 4 Agent for gang Sprite hacking.  Or maybe wait until you can swing the rating 6 Agent, but without Hacking or Electronic Warfare skill you're blowing off a huge part of what you can do. 
*or*
You can use Electronic Warfare as Perception when you use Sensors (p.445 of the basic book), so buy a handheld sensor or keep a drone around full time and swap the points in Perception for Electronic Warfare maybe?  And I'd strongly consider holding off on the specializations in order to pick up as much Hacking as you can.  That way you're not missing any critical Matrix skills.  You don't have to come out and say you're a hacker, but you're 90% of the way there, you may as well.  And of course Sprite abuse to cover up the cracks.

Consider Sleeping Tiger armor instead of the Chameleon suit, and don't forget to use Machine Sprites to buff your stealth checks. 

I'm not sure that the Exotic Weapon and Pistols and Automatics [Machine Pistols] is the most efficient use of your resources.  And with as small of a dice pool you've got you're mechanically ahead if you keep one of the Remingtons loaded with Stick and shock instead of the Taser.

Lockpicking is going to be a problem since you can't use any of the +gear or likely any bonus from a Machine Sprite for removing the Housing and bypassing any tamper switches.  You're better off hacking the locks usually.  And, that frees up some Karma and Moneys. 

And since Trisk hasn't been by yet to mention it, Drugs, Drugs, Drugs.  At least one dose of Jazz or Cram, and a shot of Psyche, Long Haul, and a stim patch.  Basic starter cocktail. 

Qualities Code of Honor: Like a Boss is hilarious.  More Karma.  Consider keeping 7 Karma banked at the end of Chargen so you can probably grab Mind over Machine after the first run.  For sure after the second.   

And as was mentioned, never jump into a Drone.  Just let the Sprites drive.

Otaku to Technomancer is certainly not bad.  And as was mentioned, exceptional Attribute Willpower is also a consideration. 

[adzling]

Whiskey can you elaborate on why Technomancers aren't as good as deckers in cybercombat (i would assume they can't get their dice pools high enough and / or their meatdeck can't compete with a cyberdeck stats)?

The ninja one where you spend 1 edge point to remove all marks instantly seems rather useful....

Unless you have multiple things with marks on you. It's only one at a time. And there are better things to use Edge for.

And it's better to not get detected at all.

Or do you just not get any marks on you in the first place?

This. TMs can't compete with deckers or IC in cybercombat.

[Hobbes]

Whiskey can you elaborate on why Technomancers aren't as good as deckers in cybercombat (i would assume they can't get their dice pools high enough and / or their meatdeck can't compete with a cyberdeck stats)?

Deckers are often faster, and can frequently hit harder because Technomancer's living personas are usually inferior to a cyber deck.  Technomancers should just cheat and Thread something awful in the decker's general direction and swamp them with Sprites and get on with whatever they're doing instead of trading punches.  IMO hackers in general shouldn't sit around trading punches with anything unless it's absolutely mission critical to stick around.

And if your Hacker frequently has marks, much less multiple marks, on them you're doing something terribly wrong. 

[zarzak]

TMs will continue to be screwed so long as they lack equivalents to traditions, foci, and mentor spirits. Again I am super shocked that Data Trails provided NONE of this.

Yeah - I couldn't believe that there were no mentor spirit equivalents at the least.  Not to mention Foci equivalents ...

[adzling]

Hobbes doesnt the deck's stats just affect limits?
So you can keep more of your hits if you have a better deck but it wont increase your pool.
Right?

Besides that It seems like dice pools will be similar, no?

[Triskavanski]

The ninja one where you spend 1 edge point to remove all marks instantly seems rather useful....

Unless you have multiple things with marks on you. It's only one at a time. And there are better things to use Edge for.

And it's better to not get detected at all.

Or do you just not get any marks on you in the first place?

This. TMs can't compete with deckers or IC in cybercombat.

In what way can a TM not compete with a decker in Cybercombat?

[Whiskeyjack]

In what way can a TM not compete with a decker in Cybercombat?

Hobbes nailed it.

But, in addition, programs >>>> CFs. Having a deck and the options/defense it entails (with appropriate mode) > everything you get hit with in the Matrix affecting your actual brain and condition monitor. The benefits from AR hacking that TMs can never actually match without screwing their Resonance.

Stuff like that.

If you send sprites in, then you're wasting a resource on a form of combat that fundamentally doesn't matter in 99% of circumstances. Once again, it's much better to avoid detection than to fight things out on the Matrix. A TM is going to be worse at fighting simply due to the constraints of being MAD. Or he can throw sprites at the enemy for no real gain. Lose/lose.

[Triskavanski]

Okay first off

1) AR hacking - A Technomancer can easily do AR hacking. No they don't need to get any gear or datajacks or nothing like that. They can see the world in AR naturally. About the only issue they have over a Decker, is the lack of initiative boosters in AR.

2) Programs being four times stronger than CFs - You're not being very creative with your CF usage then. Either that or your GM is not allowing you to be creative with it. I don't think you know how strong something like Resonance Veil can be. Though it does fall a bit into the whole "Don't get seen." but just cause your seen, or even having people actively attempting to send their little data spikes at you, don't think for a moment that the technomancer is some sort of gnat. You can easily use this to create a 'ghost decker' while you run in silent mode, resonance spiking the enemy. They have no reason to even look for you then, because the ghost decker is clearly what is attacking them. Or perhaps you do get spotted. Well.. replicate your persona. Suddenly there isn't one of you, but 10 of you. Granted, this does take some working out with your GM.. so if the GM is a sourpuss who won't let you have the fanciful matrix illusions that a mage can do in the meat world, come up with other methods. Tattletell isn't as bad as one would think it to be, especially when your making technomancers like I do, with 7+ will power and a whole bag full of Nitro.

3) Your Brain and Condition monitor - Actually with the Pain Editor Echo or Bioware, I don't think you know just how strong this could be instead of being a weakness. Again, using my technomancers as a base, with 7 Willpower, That 12 on their stun track. Then 3~5 body, adds another 2~3 on their physical track. giving them  a total of 10-11 physical tracks. A Decker's deck only has what? 10 or so? With a Stim patch, I can remove a good load of that stun damage. So in terms of boxes, My Technomancer has twice as much, or more than your decker's deck.

In terms of trading blows, the Technomancer will actually come out on top there, due to having more boxes than a decker, provided they have that echo/bioware. They've usually got a much higher defense than a decker would, with that 7 will power. Against a data spike, my techonomancers usually got 12 dice initially, and since my first action in any cyber combat test is to take a total defense action, increasing me up to 19 dice, and following it up with some Nitro, maybe even a dose of psyche as well, I can increase that to 23~25 dice easily. Nothing is worse than attempting to data spike someone with 25 or so dice, who blows the limit on the defense check.

A quick run for this -defense roll vs dataspike, blow the limit.: 29d6h5 12,

That is one roll with my Tobbis character. I don't need to hack you.. I can just have you hack yourself for me. Granted, I did use a number of limited resources for this. Nitro, Psyche, Edge, but where else would you find a way to so easily let someone else kill them self for you?


That is probably one of the bigger things there. Especially if you can find some way to pump out noise.

AR Hacking? Get yourself a coat with Universal Mirror weave and flensal fabric. Using these two things together, you can create noise against stuff you don't want, while focusing the flensal on things you do want. Cause remember defense tests are not affected by noise. While any attempt to hack you is. If you're going crazy high defense.. its very unlikely you could get effectively hacked, while sending out nasty little spikes at enemies.

[Hobbes]

Hobbes doesnt the deck's stats just affect limits?
So you can keep more of your hits if you have a better deck but it wont increase your pool.
Right?

Besides that It seems like dice pools will be similar, no?

Charisma is usually the problem.  If a TM has bumped up Cha to the point of being able to punch out an IC they're usually in a wheelchair.  Presuming the TM has a pack of Sprites boosting them the dice pools will work out about the same, but the Decker will often have some kind of initiative booster augments.  Even a Cha of 3 means a TM's attacks are mostly useless unless they've managed to heard up a pack of Sprites to assist.  And typically you'll have the Sprites doing more useful stuff than standing around waiting to team punch. 

Seriously, Puppeteer, reboot his deck, get the job done, get gone before the decker even gets back online. 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not being able to go fast and often in AR hacking is an incredibly big deal.

It doesn't help how many of the better CFs are vague and require GM adjudication to determination their usefulness. This has been abundantly clear given the number of topics on the subject since 5E came out.

The Pain Editor echo is pretty good, before that you're screwing your Resonance with Essence loss.

How are you hitting drugs while in limp noodle VR state without switching out and back in?

I will say, cool notions with bouncing Data Spikes.

And I agree with Hobbes, there are better things to do in the Matrix than fight. Such things are typically pretty pointless. I can't think of a good reason for it to happen unless you're waiting on another sprite to hack into something and you have to defend them or wait out a timer or something.