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Should I get an assault rifle?

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Rooks

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« Reply #30 on: <06-27-15/0043:41> »
Suppressive fire takes a Complex Action, uses twenty rounds of ammo, and ignores recoil. Though it may appear as a “spray and pray” technique it is in fact a combination of controlled and fully automatic bursts focused over a narrow area and directed at anything that moves.

its pretty much assumed you need a weapon capable of Full Auto

Top Dog

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« Reply #31 on: <06-27-15/0344:07> »
Wow, I never noticed that either. That's quite bad.

Mind you, the only fire modes listed for weapons are SS/SA/BF/FA. Full-Auto fire is listed seperately and restricted to Full-Auto weapons, but that's the only complex fire mode that links itself to a 'simple' fire mode. That means that supressive fire isn't linked to any fire type (or weapon), but neither are S-A burst and Long Burst. By the exact same argument, you can do a Long Burst with a Single Shot weapon (which is obviously not intended).

The link is sort of hinted to in the text, but never actually stated (just as with Supressive Fire).

[Edit] Actually, SA Burst does specifically state it's an option for SA weapons: "Semi-Automatic weapons can fire a burst of three rounds with a Complex Action."
Long Burst hints to it like Suppressive does, but doesn't actually say it.

(Mind you, if you try to abuse that in an actual game, you should be booked).
« Last Edit: <06-27-15/0352:27> by Top Dog »

Rooks

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« Reply #32 on: <06-27-15/0417:32> »
Course if you have the armorer skill and want to mod your gun for Full Auto I think you should be able to, I mean you can make semi auto fire full auto irl

Xenon

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« Reply #33 on: <06-27-15/0708:37> »
There are a few options if you want to hit more than one target with a single firearm.

SS; N/A

SA: Weapon automatically fire 1 bullet each time you pull the trigger. Pull the trigger three times. Can be used against three different enemy targets that need to be within short or medium range (aim at the first target, fire a round, aim at the second target, fire again and aim at a third target and pull the trigger a third time) by spending a complex action, a free action and splitting the pool three times. Need a weapon skill of 5+ to do it. Mind the effects of recoil.

BF: Weapon automatically fire 3 bullets each time you pull the trigger. Pull the the trigger twice. Can be used against two different enemy targets that need to be within short or medium range (aim at one target, pull the trigger, aim at the second target and pull the trigger again) by spending both a complex action, a free action and splitting the pool twice. Need a weapon skill of 3+ to do it. Mind the effects of recoil.

FA: Weapon automatically fire bullets as long as you squeeze the trigger. Use a combination of controlled and fully automatic bursts focused over a narrow area and directed at anything that moves. Frontal cone area of effect attack that hit both friend and foe. Last entire combat turn or until you move or take any other action.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #34 on: <06-27-15/0817:40> »
I'd also draw everyone's attention to the Firing Mode Table.

Note how the Mode column is listed (emphasis mine):
Quote from: SR5 page 180
Single-Shot (SS)
Semi-Automatic (SA)
Semi-Automatic Burst (SB)
Burst Fire (BF)
Long Burst (LB) or Full Auto (FA) (Simple)
Full Auto (FA) (Complex)
Suppressive Fire

Suppressive Fire explicitly does not list a mode (SS/SA/SB/BF/LB/FA). If it was intended that Suppressive Fire was only possible with FA weapons, I would have expected it to be listed as Suppressive Fire (FA). Pair that with the specific rules for Suppressive Fire with less than 20 rounds, and I'd say there's a solid case to be made for Suppressive Fire with any weapon. Of course, an SS weapon isn't going to be able to suppress anything, but a Burst Fire weapon firing a long burst (6 rounds) could suppress an area 4 meters wide, perfect for hallways and the like.

Xenon

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« Reply #35 on: <06-27-15/0906:16> »
A weapon in BF mode will automatically spit out 3 bullets within less than 0.2 seconds each time you press the trigger. All three bullets each time you press the trigger will land pretty close to each other.

In SR5 a Long Burst is when you press the trigger twice. You get a "burst" of 3 bullets first time you tap the trigger and then another "burst" of 3 bullets the second time you tap the trigger.

I don't have access to run n gun but i doubt it is phrased in a way to allow you to use semi automatic mode or burst fire mode as a frontal cone area of effect attack. To spay n pray a frontal cone area you kinda need a weapon with a full automatic firing mode (squeeze the trigger while you move your weapon sideways... spraying bullets over a frontal cone area).

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #36 on: <06-27-15/1023:40> »
Xenon
I'd agree with you if Suppressive Fire was described as spray and pray. It isn't, and there's mention of both burst fire and controlled fully automatic fire in the suppressive fire description, as well as rules for suppressive fire with less than 20 bullets. This seems pretty clear cut to me from a rules perspective.

Novocrane

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« Reply #37 on: <06-27-15/1025:01> »
Quote
I don't have access to run n gun but i doubt it is phrased in a way [...]
I was mistaken on Enhanced Suppression or Flechette Suppressive Fire saying anything but 'for use with Suppressive Fire'. The only possibly relevant information is on p180 of the core book, under the 'Not Enough Bullets' side bar.

Quote
All three bullets each time you press the trigger will land pretty close to each other.
But far enough apart that they give a penalty to dodge, rather than a bonus to DV, hmm? R&G does offer that, at least.

Prætus

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« Reply #38 on: <06-28-15/0254:55> »
After being gone a while, I am back..

Remington Suppressor is an awesome machine pistol. Only issue is lack of full auto, so I can't suppress anyone. But it is a reliable alternative to many heavy pistols and cheaper too.

Fair.  It's a good option for a character when "shooting" is a secondary concern, though, and is comparable to the Colt 2066 in many regards. 

My 'decker eventually went with the Ak-97, rather than the M-23 for his big gun.  Costs a little more, a few rounds light of two full suppression actions, but it hits harder, punches through armor better when you hit something/someone, "and it makes a distinctive sound when fired at you, so remember it."

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #39 on: <06-28-15/1014:39> »
You can use Suppressive Fire twice with the AK-97. The second usage will just have the suppressed area reduced by 1m, as per the sidebar on page 180.

Rooks

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« Reply #40 on: <06-28-15/1052:30> »
Based on the explaination on suppressive fire if you have 3 combat turns per combat round and all you did was long bursts in a cone area then ya I would let it slide that you can suppress using only BF weapons provided you have the 20 rounds of ammo

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #41 on: <06-28-15/1105:16> »
Rooks
You don't need 20 rounds of ammo unless you want to suppress the full 10m at the end of the cone. The sidebar "Not enough bullets" on page 180 states this rather clearly.

gradivus

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« Reply #42 on: <06-29-15/1826:40> »
Good luck finding MPs with enough ammo capacity.
6P without AP is just not good enough against most opponents (Body 3 Armor Jacket 12 Helmet 2 =17dice)

Remington Suppressor 7P -1 AP..... just saying.
"Speech" Thought >>Matrix<< Astral

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #43 on: <06-30-15/0602:29> »
Good weapon, but lacks FA capability and the magazine is also not really that big.
talk think matrix

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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #44 on: <06-30-15/0644:07> »
Remington Suppressor is one of the best machine pistols on the market due to it's base 7P DV and unique -1 AP, but it's SA/FA only at has a magazine capacity of only 15 rounds. It's a great weapon, but it's not a replacement for something like the full auto Steyr TMP if that's an important deciding factor.