[jofer234]

I have re-read all your posts guys,well I think i am starting understand all this matrix system  .Or at least memorize it.
But still...
1)2) So, Decker can create PANs with team devices and if i understand all this right, PAN still stand even if decker not using Matrix. I read the Gear section in the core book,and found the Jammer.It disable all wireless bonuses if his raiting exceed raiting of the device.Can this thing broke anyone PAN if it exceed the Masters Device raiting? I mean...if this thing can break wireless bonuses,so this thing can vanish the device from matrix?
i didnt saw anything about that but still...
3)4) Well...i like all you just said,but honestly i think i should ask you straight
The decker in my game is strong.Really strong. with all Bioware augmentation and qualities he have very,very large dicepool (10 Logic and 6 in electronic group).He can hack,mark,or break near everything he want.If the Jammer can vanish everything from Matrix he can also hack everything without trouble.And he have programm or quality to prevent tracking from God and Host (i dont remember what exactly he have)  And i dont really know what should i do with all this. Except- host 6-8 raiting and tougher spiders.But yes,we have edge..And now he doesnt need any maps.Right now he is god of hacking.
Can you give me an advice?Or i just throw that away because "This is Shadowrun" thing?
5) Guess I answered this in my previous post. (C)
Well....yes,and no.If i understand you correctly,the answer for my question  is yes.But that is that point there the Fun of misunderstanding for me begins!
а) I can automatically spot all the devices within 100m range.I know exaclty that the commlink is commlink and the gun is the gun.
b) Now the distance is out of 100m range.What EXACTLY should i know to spot the device?Example: I know my friend using Renraku Sensei commlink.He is the owner by the device. Well no question for my.Spot.Mark.Trace.
c) My friend stole my commlink and changed the ownership.But there are lost and lots of commlinks like was mine. But still i know exactly my commlink.Can i still track my device?
d) i saw MR Johnsons Persona and some of his devices.So is that it?If he doesnt change his persona (that may probably not unique) and he is the owner of his Gun or commlink i can track him?
e) I am decker.I am inside the corps host.My team wants me to open the door.The are 3 silent ruinning WANs inside.If i dont know what i am looking for i wiil spot all the silent running icons one by one to see whats inside.But i know that i need only doors!And probably all silent runing WANs have the doors on them  In this case i think i should know what the exactly door i am looking for (Labs,garage,etc.)or not?
well...this kind of things
I really dont understand this kind of things guys 
Before i forget two more question but not about Matrix.Just to not starting another topic.I hope the admin will not close this topic for Flood or something like that.Just 2 questions.
Gear section.
Skillwires: Skillwires are a system of neuromuscular controllers that overlie the body’s natural nervous system; they are capable of aiding or completely overriding muscular movement, controlled by the “muscle memory” played through a skilljack (p. 452). This system  allows you to use activesofts with a rating up to your skillwire’s rating, but only if that activesoft is running on your implanted skilljack. Skillwires are incompatible with reflex recorder bioware. Wireless: With the skillwire’s memory cache expanded, all the skills you use with it receive +1 to the relevant inherent Limit (Physical, Mental, or Social).
Skilljack: This headware interprets knowsofts and linguasofts for your brain so you can use them as though they were your own. It can also run activesofts, but they only act as Knowledge Skills unless you have skillwires (p. 455). The total of all skills running on a skilljack cannot exceed its Rating x 2, and the maximum Rating for a skill is the skilljack’s Rating. Starting skills from storage and stopping skills is a Free Action. You can’t use Edge with skills you have through a skilljack. If you have more than one skilljack, only one of them can operate at a time. Wireless: The extra boost from the Matrix increases the total Rating limit to the skilljack’s Rating x 3.
The question is.If i have Skilljack,and skillwires,what kind of skill can i upload?I mean if i dont know about medicine can i use this skill equal to skill jack raiting?I hope i cant combine this thing with skills that i already have....
The second question is...well...i think its kind of strange but here it is.
Honestly i am pretty new to all this Tabletop theme and Shadowrun (Of course!). I read one of mision book and on the last page i found Debrifing Log.So,is this thing only for Catalyst Game convent or I or my players can use it in regular games?I mean,i made the character,but after 6 months or 1 year of playing with current GM lets say....he doesnt want to play anymore.So can i save my character to play with another team?(if the GM allowed)
My point is...well its kind of sad if i cant.Because if the GMwill start to bullying his players the players can quit anytime yes...but the players will also lose their characters...
GM literally lose nothing.Players literally lose all.
I know the tabletop is not the new kind of games.So,can i save my character in one way or another?

[Kincaid]

1. No.  This is a often-debated/houseruled item, but a jammer just eliminates the wireless bonus (not functionality) of a device.  So your smartgun system won't give you +2 dice, but you'll still get the +2 accuracy bonus.  Commlinks have no wireless bonus, so jammers don't interact with them.

2. I'd take a closer look at his sheet.  There is no program or quality that fully prevents accumulating an OS.  There are a few things you can do here or there to delay things, but there's nothing you can do to stop the clock.  16 dice is good-ish for a starting decker, but certainly not enough to make you a God in the Matrix.

5a) Probably.  It is possible to mask a device's icon using the Wrapper program or to simply run a device on silent.  However, assuming the person you're looking at is a law-abiding citizen (what are the odds?), then you'll be able to distinguish between his commlink and pistol icons.

b) I'm not entirely sure I understand the question.  Barring some effort to trick you, you'll know the type of device that you're looking at.  You will not know the device's owner, although that's often not hard to infer.

c) If the change of ownership is complete, no.  However, this takes a few hours and your friend needs to be connected to the Matrix while he changes the ownership, so you have a window in which to track him down and "thank" him for being such a great friend.

d) Again (and I apologize, it's late and I'm tired), I don't entirely understand the scenario you're talking about here.

e) If you're in a host (and presumably have a mark on said host), you are directly connected to every device slaved to that host.  You don't have marks on them, so there are still a few hoops to jump through, but finding door #238 won't be a problem.

You can upload any sort of skill into skillwires.  You can upload knowledge and language skills into a skilljack.  If you do run an active skill through a skilljack (Pistols, for example), it acts as a Knowledge skill.  You know all about different types of pistols, but you're no better at actually firing them.

Shadowrun Missions is its own project and has a subforum here that's worth checking out.  The short version: There are different types of missions out there.  CMPs are generally for conventions, while the SRM Season 5-6 missions are for a general audience.  You can check to see if there are any demo agents near you who offer Shadowrun games as well.

[Xenon]

b) If you know your friends unique commcode you can probably use that when you try to Spot him.

c) If you Spot mr Jonson's matrix icon you may continue to spot it until he (or you) reboot. After that you need to spot him again.....

If you want to snoop incomming and outgoing calls you first need a mark and a successful snoop matrix action. Unless you are a technomancer you only have about an hour before GOD converge.

If you want to get a real time update on his physical location you need two marks and the trace icon matrix action.

[jofer234]

1) Got it.
2) Got it.
And Got it for nearly everything. But still i am not sure about spotting.I will try to explain why i am still cant understand this simple thing( And i am really sorry too for my misunderstanding.
All about 5th point.So what i understand now
1) I can spot every device withint 100m range (if its not running silent) and i know what the exactly the device is (if its not decker programm like Wrapper).
2) If i spot someone device,i can still track it without any test (if the owner didnt reboot or succefully hide from me,  or till i reboot my device)
Now the distance to spot is outside of 100m range.And this is there i cant understand how this all system work.
And thats why.
I can understand why i can spot MY commlink if it was stolen.At least because I am still the owner.My commlink have blank with my name.I can understand why i cant spot my commlink if the owner was changed.Because there are lots and lots of commlinks like was mine.
But still,if i understand you correctly,i can also spot the lab door because i am actually know that is the lab door.Also,if i saw someone on the billboard with commlink,or with cyberware,i can spot him too even if i dont know his name to check ownership.Also,if i want to spot all the devices of....lets say,mister Johnson,i must make Extended test (or even without it) but still,i dont even need to know his real name.Even if he threw away his raiting 1 commlink and equip raiting 6 commlnk.I saw his face,or someone described it to me and thats it.
So i can spot anyone device just because i can.Or cant i?
i mean.I dont understand the modus operandi of matrix perception when i try to find someone device in Matrix.If the core rule is know something unique about your target,and not matter what,i cant understand how this works.If you must know at least his name to check the ownership...well...i can understand it.
I hope i described all my thoughts right.

[Xenon]

You automatically spot icons that have your mark (and for all intents and purposes you have the equivalent of four marks on all icons you are the owner of). Even if they run silent and even if they belong to a device that is physically more than 100 meters away from you.

You cannot really check ownership of an icon. If you have a lot of time then i guess you could use Trackback on a mark to find the owner, but that's it.

When you form your persona on your cyberdeck you can view the entire matrix. You can "fly" around the matrix sky (either by moving around your "matrix perception" in a "AR window" while walking around in the meat or by literally "flying" in virtual reality) looking down on all device icons that make out the matrix ground levels. Icons towards the "edge" are dim and flickering and hard to make out, but you can still see them. As you "fly" towards the edge of the matrix (there are no real distances in the matrix, you just like the feeling of flying) and you look over your shoulder you see a very bright icon. That is the device you used to base your persona on. Around that device there are a small cluster of icons that are rather crisp and vibrant. They belong to devices that are physically close to your cyberdeck. You put your attention forward again and zoom in very close on one of the dim device icons. You spend a second or do to Observe In Detail (using Matrix Perception). Its hard since the icon is very dim and is probably either very far away from your cyberdeck or is in some sort of high spam or static zone. It turns out that the icon you are looking at is a device rating 2 electronic device that seem to have something to do with illumination. Close to it are other stationary device icons that probably belong to stationary wireless electronic devices but you also see man-sized icons that move in various directions that probably are other personas. You Observe the icon again trying to find out more information about it, but before you do that you shift data processing to be your highest matrix attribute and you also load Signal Scrub. You make out that the device belong to a street lamp that will defend with a firewall rating of 2 (so it is probably not slaved) and is running on the local Berlin City Grid. The only way to access the local grid is to physically be there (or be a technomancer) so you need to work across grids and you now also know that the icon is located in Berlin somewhere. You switch sleaze to your highest matrix attribute and then you trick the icon to accept one of your marks. Then another. That cause ripples within the matrix. Ripples that the demiGOD start to investigate. Within about an hour it will converge on you but you plan to reboot long before that. Then you physically trace the device. You now know that it is located exactly at the corner of Leipziger Straße and Wilhelmstraße in the Berlin sprawl, Europe. That would explain why the icon was so hard to spot. With a blink of an eye you find yourself back at your cyberdeck. Far far away you still see the street lamp. Spending a free action and rolling electronics warfare you use Control Device to switch off the lamp. As the corner of Leipziger Straße and Wilhelmstraße in the Berlin spraw goes darker you switch to AR and reboot your cyberdeck.....

[Xenon]

You see a physical toaster in front of you. Since the toaster is within 100 meters and not running silent you automatically also see its device icon with you augmented reality overlay.

On the same table you see a physical Ruger Super Warhawk. However, you don't see the tomahawk like device icon with your augmented realilty overlay. Strange... Perhaps it's owner set it to run silent...? to spot it's device icon you take an opposed Matrix Perception test against the owners logic.

...or owners logic plus sleaze rating if the device got a sleaze rating or is slaved to the owners cyberdeck or other device with a sleaze rating. Or device rating if the device is left unattended - like a maglock that is not slaved. Or host rating and host sleaze rating if slaved to a host...

If you still don't see its icon it might be because you failed your test (you can use rules for Trying Again if you wish).

...or because the device is wireless off  (you can Trying Again to spot it but as long as it is wireless off you will never spot it) or because the device is a throwback....

If you succeed then you will see the tomahawk like icon that belong to the -wireless on and silent running- Ruger Super Warhawk.

If you don't even have an idea that there might be any silent running devices out there or if you have no idea of what you are looking for other than silent running devices in general then you can always first try to get a random list of all silent running devices in the vicinity and then try to spot them one by one as normal.

[jofer234]

i think i got it.Probably very clear..
So much thanks for your help guys.

[Xenon]

1) I can spot every device withint 100m range (if its not running silent)

You can spot every single icon in the entire world, but beyond 100 meters they are no longer obvious so you need to take a test to Spot them (just like you may need to take a test to spot a specific neon sign 30 meters down the street or to notice the gun fire in the next alley).

and i know what the exactly the device is (if its not decker programm like Wrapper).

You know the basic nature of the device without looking closer. A weapon will always look like some sort of weapon (but a hi-tec rifle can for example look like a medieval spear). A vehicle will always look like some kind of transportation (but a modern car can for example look like a chariot with horses and everything). Its a data processing test to change an icon do anyone can do it, but unless you also run wrapper you still need to have the weapon look like some sort of weapon and the vehicle still have to look like some sort of transportation.

If you spend a Matrix Perception to look more closely you can find out more exact details, like model, device rating etc. Looking more closely also reveals the true nature of an icon changed with Wrapper.

2) If i spot someone device,i can still track it without any test (if the owner didnt reboot or succefully hide from me,  or till i reboot my device)

You still Spot it. Its still in your "list" of icons you spot. You can still interact with it (like using Matrix Perception to find out more details about the icon, hack on the fly to trick the icon to accept your mark, snoop or control it once you marked it etc)

...but to actually track it's physical location you need two marks and successfully use the Trace Icon matrix action.

I can understand why i can spot MY commlink if it was stolen.At least because I am still the owner.My commlink have blank with my name.

You automatically spot icons that have your mark. For all intents and purposes you have 4 marks on all items you are the legit matrix owner of. You automatically Spot all your icons.

I can understand why i cant spot my commlink if the owner was changed.Because there are lots and lots of commlinks like was mine.

If you are not the owner, you don't have your mark on it, it is currently not in your spot list and you don't know any unique feature about it then you can still always try to play 20 questions to find it.
Player: "I filter my view to only see device icons that belong to a toaster"
GM: "That narrows it down to about 878 000 000 units world wide... Can you be more specific? "

But still,if i understand you correctly,i can also spot the lab door because i am actually know that is the lab door.

If you know which specific lab door you are looking for then you can spot it with a matrix perception test. If the door is physically within 100 meters and not running silent then you don't even need to take a test. If the door is running silent and slaved to a host then it might be quite hard to find out on the grid - in this case you might want to establish a direct connection to it (being inside the host it is slaved to, attach a physical cable between your cyberdeck and the device or physically touch it if you are a technomancer with a skin link echo).

Also,if i saw someone on the billboard with commlink,or with cyberware,i can spot him too even if i dont know his name to check ownership.

You don't need to know ownership of a device to spot it's device icon. In fact ownership isn't really something you can spot at all.

It is not clear if you can or cannot "spot all devices slaved to this master device", "spot the master device that this device is slaved to" or "spot all devices that is part of this PAN".

What do you mean with billboard? You can't spot a device icon from just looking in a magazine or looking at a picture....

Also,if i want to spot all the devices of....lets say,mister Johnson,i must make Extended test (or even without it)

You can't seem to spot all the devices that mr Johnson is the legit matrix owner of. If you see a mark you can make an extended test to find its rightful owner - but not the other way around.

If you mark a slaved device you also get a mark on the master (device or host). This can be used to find the master device in a PAN.

You may or may not be allowed to use matrix perception to find devices that belong to his PAN (devices he slaved to his master device/commlink).

but still,i dont even need to know his real name.Even if he threw away his raiting 1 commlink and equip raiting 6 commlnk.I saw his face,or someone described it to me and thats it.

It seem as if ownership is not something you can use to find a device icon (except if it is yours). Having seen the physical face or name of the owner does not help you finding a device icon, either.

If you for example know his unique commcode then you can try to spot his persona icon no matter which device he used to form his persona on and no matter where in the world he is located or if he is running silent.

If someone "phone" you, then you can try to to find the persona that made the "call". If he is using a device within 100 meters of you and is not running silent then you automatically spot him, if not you need to take a matrix perception test.

If you have one mark on a persona and snoop him while he sends a message then you can try to spot the recipient. If he does not try to hide and is within 100 meters of you then you automatically spot him if not you need to take a perception test.

So i can spot anyone device just because i can...

Sure. The problem is to filter. To ask the correct question(s).

Player "How many personas are there in the vicinity"
GM "There are currently 153 personas within 100 metres that are not trying to hide"

[Kincaid]

Just a quick follow up on Xenon's comment:

It is not clear if you can or cannot "spot all devices slaved to this master device", "spot the master device that this device is slaved to" or "spot all devices that is part of this PAN".

At my table, Matrix Perception can be used to determine characteristics (or the lack thereof) of icons.  The list on page 235 is a good starting point, but this also expands things to allow for someone to narrow the list of silently-running icons in his vicinity to only personae when he's picking randomly (p. 236).  So, "silently-running icons that aren't Stealth Tags" or "silently-running icons that are weapons" are legitimate questions.  However, Matrix Perception does not reveal relationships between icons that aren't already obvious.  Finding all the devices slaved to a master device is something that could probably be accomplished through legwork and some digging into the files on the master device itself, but Matrix Perception alone isn't going to reveal that sort of information.  This isn't core, but it gets around the "1,000 Stealth Tag" problem while still allowing for a certain level of anonymity and mystery in the Matrix.

[rumanchu]

I have some(hopefully)  quick persona questions:

1) Are commcodes tied to specific personas?
1b) If so, do I have to switch between various personas in order to have (for example) a "public" commcode (for my legit SIN, for example) and a "runner" commcode (for my fake SIN)?
2) Is your SIN tied to your persona, or can you swap between SINs (such as between different fake SINs) by swapping files around?

[Kincaid]

I have some(hopefully)  quick persona questions:

1) Are commcodes tied to specific personas?
1b) If so, do I have to switch between various personas in order to have (for example) a "public" commcode (for my legit SIN, for example) and a "runner" commcode (for my fake SIN)?
2) Is your SIN tied to your persona, or can you swap between SINs (such as between different fake SINs) by swapping files around?

1. No.  Commocodes are tied to devices (it's probably possible to change a device's commcode and/or transfer an old commcode to a new device--ask your GM).
2. No.  In a world full of fake SINs and burner links, personae and SINs overlapping would be a real hassle for the criminally-minded.

More broadly: It's important to make a distinction between your avatar and your persona for these sorts of questions.  The rules don't always do this because in many cases they're interchangeable, but the Matrix knows the difference.  Your avatar is what your persona looks like--a guy in a trenchcoat, a Manga-inspired schoolgirl, whatever.  To some degree, your avatar is dictated by the device you're currently using.  A DR 1 commlink and a DR 6 commlink could both make you look like a guy in a trenchcoat, but the DR 6 will create an avatar whose fluidity and resolution is noticeably better. 

Your persona is slightly different.  It's not something created by a device to represent you in the Matrix (like an avatar); in many respects, it's you.  You can put on different outfits and change your hair, but you're still you.  It's essentially impossible for a Matrix user to perceive this, but it's a critical distinction when it comes to how ownership works.  Your devices know you as your persona, not your avatar.  And your persona is the same no matter what device you use to log into the Matrix.  If someone steals your commlink and you go to Lone Star quickly enough, they'll let you log into the Matrix (assuming you're a SINner with no record) and your commlink will still recognize you as its owner, assuming it's still connected to the Matrix and the ownership change hasn't happened yet.  There is something unique to you (biometrics, most likely) that creates a unique "thumbprint" on your persona.  It cannot be duplicated by others.  Just like in real life, casual observers can't read your thumbprint, but devices you own can.

SINs are assigned, or not assigned, as part of a societal process.  Personae are formed as part of a technical process.  One does not rely on the other.

[Xenon]

Your commcode is like your combined steam/Facebook/LinkedIn/Google/xBox 360/ICQ/Spotify/Skype account, right?

It is the commcode your friends use when they contact you (calling, email, instant message, live video conference or what not).

So this is linked to your device. Your device specific avatar...

If the commcode is linked to your device can't you then spot it with a hit from a matrix perception? If you know the unique commcode if a device, can't that be used to spot it no matter where it is in the matrix.

....and if so, will that not be rather dangerous for a decker on an expansive cyberdeck. You can't really toss it just because a spider spot your cyberdeck avatar and it's associated commcode in a host on some random run

...and doesnt it also mean that technomancers need to use a device based avatar rather than  their deviceless living avatar if they want to get a combined steam/Facebook/LinkedIn/Google/xBox 360/ICQ/Spotify/Skype account?

[Kincaid]

This line of reasoning is precisely why I assume that changing a commcode (or having the Matrix equivalent of call forwarding) is SOP and having multiple commlinks (one legit, one "for business," burners, etc.) is also pretty common.  Outside of purchasing new hardware, I just handwave it since having people traced via a single hit (well, two hits, I guess) on MP would dissolve a lot of aspects of the game.

My main character is partly inspired by le Carre novels, so I get really into the operational security aspect of things (Missions, of course, does all it can to laugh in my face when it comes to this) so I'll chart out my characters' approaches to things beforehand.  That way there's no confusion as to whether or not I'm running wireless on/off, silent, whatever in a certain situation and I'm never tempted to metagame when a GM asks me what wireless I'm using.  I imagine most campaigns don't really require that level of detail, but I enjoy the thought exercise aspect of it.

[rumanchu]

So if I have a commlink that I use so that my boss (for my legit job with a real SIN) can get a hold of me, what happens if I leave my commlink at the office by mistake?  Can I route calls/messages/whatever directed to the commcode for that commlink to another commlink?

What about if I get a sweet bonus at the end of the quarter and decide to upgrade to a Farlight Caliban?  Can I move my commcode over to it, or do I have to let everyone know that it changed?

[Kincaid]

Yes to all.  These are all things you can do with your phone and computer today, so I have no problem allowing them in Shadowrun.  And leaving your commlink in your office is going to earn all sorts of unpaid overtime, chummer.