[Sendaz]

The manifested spirit takes on a form that is made of ectoplasm which while it make take on a form resembling normal matter, it still isn't and as such doesn't necessarily adhere to the physical laws as we normally know them. The ectoplasm form can move up, down, sideways with little regard for gravity, though yeah to us it's flight where for the spirit it is just movement, it is using the same locomotion in whatever direction it happens to go.

Note this is NOT the true form of the spirit, merely the form it takes while here on the physical realm, when it goes astral or back home to its metaplane the ecto-form dissolves away and goes back into the Ether.

There is some level of strength based on their force, thus allowing them to carry stuff up to a point.

The possessing spirit on the other hand latches onto a physical and is now using that form's means of locomotion, assuming it even has one. 
Possess a vase and it might be a fireball flinging / mind warping magic vase, but it will do jack about moving off that pedestal.  

It is one of the trade offs for the different kind of spirit and while one could make a case for allowing a possessing spirit to use a certain level of strength based on their force to allow limited movement contrary to the host form's native means of locomotion, but it really opens a can of worms. 
How much can a Force 1 spirit move?  and how fast?
Would a force 12 spirit possessing someone turn them into a mini-Flash or let them outfly a Banshee?

[Hibiki54]

If a Force 6 Spirit with the Movement power (such as Spirit of Air) possess someone with an AGI of 2, that vessel's AGI becomes 5 (for speed purposes), but the Spirit can natively use Movement to turn that person into a fast MoFo.

In terms of Flying, my question was already answered as No unless the creature/vessel can fly (by some means).

[Jayde Moon]

I still don't see the place where it says that a spirit can't fly whilst possessing you.  I am perfectly accepting that it's a sort of general consensus, but I can't see anyplace where it says you can't.

It also doesn't say you can, but then it doesn't say anywhere that the Spirit keeps any of it's abilities, but we're happy to say that a Fire Elemental possessing someone can make an elemental strike.

All this talk of fluff is well and good, but fluff is super subjective.  If the mechanics are ambiguous, 10 different people will find 10 different reasons fluff supports their position.

I get that inanimate objects don't move.  But that might be to ensure that you don't think it 'sprouts legs' and walks around, becausee let's face it, if they didn't specify, then folks would have towels crawling around on the ground (I know, because this happened in a game with someone who didn't have a firm grasp of how Possession works).  And application of common sense would remove walking as an option for a possessed fish (though it might flop on land at a fairly high rate of speed, indeed!).  But the 'application of common sense' breaks down with magical flight, which doesn't need appendages.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I completely respect everyone's opinion and if my GM says "No, because ectoplasm" then there we go, at that table it's no.  But what I am looking for is the SR5 Source Material that explains that you can't fly, and perhaps also where it says you get access to the other spirit powers.

[Reaver]

Well,

If a "person" (who CAN NOT normally fly) Could fly, why can't a spirit just "fly" the gun to move it?

Both are methods of movement that is not allowed normally by the vessel on its own.

Given what's been said DIRECTLY in SG page 197 that a spirit can NOT move the gun (and thus not fly the gun) the logical conclusion is that is can NOT make a human fly (without use of levitate spell).

It is a rather illegal conclusion to go: "well the spirit CAN NOT move (or fly) a gun, but it CAN fly a human"

[Jayde Moon]

I can see your point of view, and it is a valid one!  If you were my GM, you would probably make that a ruling and I'd happily abide by it.

But, in a world of magic, I can think of a lot of fluff reasons why this seemingly 'illogical' (to you) conflict between living and inanimate objects exists.  Maybe the permeation of ectoplasm through a living being (with essence) enables the power to work, but the non-living thing has no essence, so it can't.  Meanwhile, I've already presented a reason why the devs might have decided to place a restriction on movement for inanimate objects (my previous towel example) but given that the expectations are already set for living beings, they didn't have to spell it out.  Which can go both ways!  I.e. OF COURSE they can't fly, humans don't have wings; or OF COURSE they can fly, it's one of the spirit's abilities.

So, once again, I appreciate your vehemence against flight, and respect your perspective as well as see how you are getting to it, but it doesn't resolve what I'm actually looking for... which is the no shit, unambiguous, black and white source stating the case.  Which I think doesn't exist.

[Hibiki54]

So, once again, I appreciate your vehemence against flight, and respect your perspective as well as see how you are getting to it, but it doesn't resolve what I'm actually looking for... which is the no shit, unambiguous, black and white source stating the case.  Which I think doesn't exist.

Here you go.

Dead/Inanimate Vessels:  While  possessing  anonliving vessel, the spirit adds half of its Force to the vessel’s Structure and Armor Ratings (p. 197, SR5), Object Resistance dice pool (p. 295, SR5), or Physical attributes, depending on the  situation and/or vessel type. The combined entity uses its enhanced attributes (or the spirit’s, if the vessel lacks attributes) to calculate Initiative, and it uses the spirit’s Initiative dice. The spirit can use any of its powers through the vessel itself, but it can only move the vessel in ways the vessel can normally perform. For example, a spirit possessing a gun can fire the gun but cannot move the gun or access any smartgun functions. Generally, spirits can only control mechanical functions, not  anything that requires complex electronic, DNI, or wireless control.

Meaning a Spirit possessing a human cannot fly unless that human just happens to be some sort of metavariant birdman with wings growing out of his back.

[Jayde Moon]

That has already been cited.  It's for 'Dead/Inanimate Objects'.  I've already agreed that it is reasonable to attribute that to 'Living Vessels', however, it is not listed under living vessels.  We don't give Living Vessel's half the spirit's Force in Armor Rating, because that rule is for 'Dead/Inanimate Objects'.  Why would we apply other rules under the 'Dead/Inanimate Objects' heading to 'Living Vessels'?

So it's not the hard, unambiguous ruling that I'm looking for.

When I read this, I actually think that Living Vessels CAN'T fly... but neither can they use the Spirits Powers... only Dead/Inanimate Vessels get access to the spirits powers, because only in that heading does it say so.

So, if we are willing to just add words under one heading, where does that stop?  We add power usage to living vessels even though it doesn't state they get them.  Are we adding that entire sentence?  Reasonable, but again, that's just something we're arbitrarily deciding to do, based on our subjective belief as to the intent of the rules.

Anyway, this has been an interesting discussion, but I bow out before I frustrate somebody.

[Glyph]

I think the problem is that you are thinking of flight like it is a power, when it is actually the nature of a spirit's materialized form.  They "fly" because they are "not subject to gravity" (pg. 302 of the main book).  So obviously a possessed vessel, living or not, cannot move in the same way.

[Dr. Meatgrinder]

If that is the case then Shedim should not have Immunity to Normal Weapons in SRM mods since Missions uses the official stats and powers of critters.

Looking at you SRM 06-06.

Since you're looking at my mission...

Auslander (and Altar Boy) having the Immunity to Normal Weapons power was an intentional breaking of the rules.  I wrote the initial draft of the mission before Street Grimoire came out, but when it did come out I made the choice (with the approval of the Missions Developer) that Auslander should have the power anyway because he'd had the power in his previous two Missions appearances.  While a "typical" master shedim does not have Immunity to Normal Weapons, Auslander is not a "typical" master shedim.

[Hibiki54]

If that is the case then Shedim should not have Immunity to Normal Weapons in SRM mods since Missions uses the official stats and powers of critters.

Looking at you SRM 06-06.

Since you're looking at my mission...

Auslander (and Altar Boy) having the Immunity to Normal Weapons power was an intentional breaking of the rules.  I wrote the initial draft of the mission before Street Grimoire came out, but when it did come out I made the choice (with the approval of the Missions Developer) that Auslander should have the power anyway because he'd had the power in his previous two Missions appearances.  While a "typical" master shedim does not have Immunity to Normal Weapons, Auslander is not a "typical" master shedim.

I knew all that. It's only a roleplaying mod no matter how you look at it. 

[Jayde Moon]

I think the problem is that you are thinking of flight like it is a power, when it is actually the nature of a spirit's materialized form.  They "fly" because they are "not subject to gravity" (pg. 302 of the main book).  So obviously a possessed vessel, living or not, cannot move in the same way.

Ambiguous word usage.  Pitfall of rules lawyering in a game is that words actually mean specific things, so I erred in using the word 'power' (at our game tables, when someone says 'they burn a point of edge', we are quick to correct them by saying they 'use' a point of edge).

I'm actually looking at it like a... 'trait', I guess.  All 'Abilities' (Strength, Charisma, Magic Rating etc.), 'Skills' (Unarmed Combat, etc), 'Critter Powers', etc are 'traits', really for lack of a better collective term?  I get that flight is not a 'Critter Power'.

If it makes everyone feel better, I don't think flight is 'intended'.  I also agree with anyone who wouldn't allow it.  But I 100% don't see that it is unambiguously disallowed by the rules as written.