[Raven2049]

so im currently flush with cash (290,000 nuyen) and have been saving up for a Sony CIY-720, but now that data trails is out, im curious, what would you guys get? this is for a multi classing rigger/sam/decker with primary focus on rigging, but uses a shotgun for backup sam duty

my thoughts were this, looking at the 720, and the different mods that came out with data trails, im seriously considering doing one of a few things. One being going with my first instinct and the 720, a second being the Tsurugi with a few modifications, a third being a Ring of Light Special with modifications, a Caliban with dongles and a program carrier mod, or as a friend suggested as i am a rigger modding my Leigelord (or getting a better RCC) with attack or sleaze and going from there.

these are my stats:
Logic 8
Intuition 6
cyber combat 3
electronic warfare 3
hacking 2
computer 4
hardware 3
software 3

and here are my thoughts:
CIY-720:
Cost: 345,000
Array: 7654
Programs: 4
DR: 4
Module: either the coprocessor, or the signal filter
Modification: unsure, could be the add module slot so i can have both the above
Programs: open to suggestions

Tsurugi:
Cost 214,000
Array 6553 (ASDF) Rearranged to: 5356
Programs: 3
DR: 3
Module: Program Carrier w/ Virtual Machine
Modification: increase Matrix Attribute 3-4
Programs: Encryption, Decryption, Exploit, Wrapper, Baby Monitor
Effective Array: 65[7]57
Total Cost: +minimal

Ring of Light Special:
Cost: 242,000
Array: 8126
Programs: 3
DR: 4
Module: Program Carrier w/ Virtual Machine
Modification: Increase Matrix Attribute [Sleaze] 2
Programs: Encryption, Exploit, Wrapper, Toolbox, Baby Monitor
Effective Array: 82[4]37
Total Cost: +minimal

Caliban + Dongles:
Cost: 8,000 + 108,000, +108,000
Dongles: R6 Attack, R6 Sleaze
Array: --77
DR: 7
Programs: 0
Module: can a comm take a dongle and a module at once? if so program carrier w/VM
Programs: Baby Monitor, open to suggestions
Modified Array: 6677
Total Cost: 224,000+

Triox Ubermench or leigelord w/mods:
Cost: free(have it already), or 140,000
Dongles: Attack R6
Array: varies --56 / --87
Programs: Varies
Modification: Add Matrix Attrib Sleaze
Programs: Stealth, Smoke & Mirrors, Baby Monitor
Modified Array: 62[7]56 OR 62[7]87
Total Cost: 248,000+

I'm sure I'm missing some ideas with the above options, and I'm trying more along the lines to be a brute force focused decker with a sleaze backup. I have not yet picked up any qualities for hacking (overclocker/codeslinger etc) so any help would be appreciated. If possible i would like to not spend all 290k as i have a few expenses coming up with chrome flesh round the corner *drools* but if i have to i will.

thoughts? ideas? suggestions? and no, before you say anything i will not consider doing any of the multi commlink/agent teamwork things suggested on the forums, my personal opinion on those are that their cheeze and silly. Would i take an agent if someone suggested it? probably. I would also like this all to remain Missions Legal as that is what i use this character in.

[Hobbes]

With Data Trails you can add a couple points of Sleaze or Attack to you RCC so it depends if just adding one small stat gets you where you want to go.  Also the program Smoke and Mirrors adds up to 5 Sleaze for a 5 point noise penalty so with enough noise reduction you can actually run a Sleaze 7 RCC for the cost of a couple bundles of Electronics parts and the cost of the Hacking Program.

If you're wanting all four stats and the flexibility to juggle them around I like the Microtrónica Azteca 300, but then you're not using your RCC.  You'd have to re-log your Persona if you wanted to do any "Real Rigging" through the RCC.  If I were you, I'd lean to upgrading the RCC if you can get by with just Sleaze or Attack.

[Darzil]

Personally I wouldn't worry about getting the Sony, you could get so much else with the nuyen. With those dice pools and an appropriate program you aren't going to be hitting the limits often. Get loads of programs and swap them around. I go for Coprocessor as an always fitted extra module, then slot in either Signal filter or Hardening depending on whether I'm on offense or defense.

[Rooks]

Vulcan Liegelord 5 10R 66,000¥

Fire wall 6 Data Processing 5

Add attribute 2,000¥ Sleaze
Increase Attribute 750¥

Signal Scrub 250
Smoke and mirrors 250

Attack dongle (Rating 3) 27000

Data Processing 5 Firewall 6 Sleaze 4 Attack 3
And you still got 3 slots for programs

Total cost 96250 got the same Matrix Condition Boxes as cyberdeck too plus you can use you sharing rating as noise reduction so +5 sleaze (9 sleaze) plus you know the whole point of a RCC you can slave drones to it and use autosofts

[Senko]

Remember increae attribute comes with 2 boxes of unrepairable matrix damage.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Even with rating 6 autosofts a drone still only rolls 9 dice. I wouldn't personally rely on this method.

[Rooks]

Remember increae attribute comes with 2 boxes of unrepairable matrix damage.

and a Cyber deck device rating is mostly 3 vs RCC  device rating of 5

[Hobbes]

Vulcan Liegelord 5 10R 66,000¥

Fire wall 6 Data Processing 5

Add attribute 2,000¥ Sleaze
Increase Attribute 750¥

Signal Scrub 250
Smoke and mirrors 250

Attack dongle (Rating 3) 27000

Data Processing 5 Firewall 6 Sleaze 4 Attack 3
And you still got 3 slots for programs

Total cost 96250 got the same Matrix Condition Boxes as cyberdeck too plus you can use you sharing rating as noise reduction so +5 sleaze (9 sleaze) plus you know the whole point of a RCC you can slave drones to it and use autosofts

Dongle for an RCC is house rule territory.  Kincade has commented on it and stated he didn't believe Dongle on an RCC to be as intended, and he was one of the editors.  Thread is around here somewhere.  Fluff wise sure makes sense, but actual rules maybe not.

[Rooks]

I mean otherwise your RCC is primed to be hacked by a decker and you have NOTHING you can do about it hell you cant even run silent with anything except your logic as a stock RCC hell in 4th edition your commlink was a RCC

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

I mean otherwise your RCC is primed to be hacked by a decker and you have NOTHING you can do about it hell you cant even run silent with anything except your logic as a stock RCC hell in 4th edition your commlink was a RCC

I agree but caught a 5 day ban for pointing out how bad the Logic of that statement in reference was... I thought it was for being mean to Triskavanski in a different thread (which I was and would have accepted.) It is a huge hole that'll be fixed in the Riggers Splatbook but pointing out that they are intentionally gimping Riggers with logical fallacies as reasons to require them to buy that Splatbook is highly frowned upon apparently!!!

[Herr Brackhaus]

I agree but caught a 5 day ban for pointing out how bad the Logic of that statement in reference was... I thought it was for being mean to Triskavanski in a different thread (which I was and would have accepted.) It is a huge hole that'll be fixed in the Riggers Splatbook but pointing out that they are intentionally gimping Riggers with logical fallacies as reasons to require them to buy that Splatbook is highly frowned upon apparently!!!

If you're fresh off a ban, you might want to limit the speculation and remember rule one: play nice. Just a friendly suggestion.

I'd also like to point out that while Kincaid did say he is a freelancer and not a member of the rules team, he specifically mentioned that dongles not being applicable for RCCs was not just his own opinion, but came from on high. See below, emphasis mine.

I should once again point out that I'm not on the rules team and I'm very much on the lower end of the freelancer totem pole.  I don't have the authority to make rulings--I just hang out here more often than other freelancers.  Sometimes I can communicate the decisions of others (like KS freebies for Life Modules), but often I'm just expressing my own take on an issue.  Exactly what my own take on an issue is largely depends on my involvement with its creation--I can talk all day with you about GI/GO since I wrote that.  I can't really speak to the echoes since I didn't write that and I don't want to misrepresent someone else's work by accident.

Now, having said all that, the idea of dongles on something other than a commlink has been nixed from above.  That doesn't preclude to possibility to riggers getting some sort of functional equivalent come Rigger 5 (I have no idea--that's a pure guess on my part), but the idea that you can get a 4/5/5/6 RCC for about 100,000 nuyen less than roughly equivalent cyberdeck makes me nervous about how the costing all plays out.  Personally, I'm not against riggers getting a way to mark.  What I wouldn't want to see is a riggers getting a way to mark that suddenly makes an iconic piece of gear (cyberdecks) somehow obsolete.  Cool toys are awesome.  Cool toys that make someone else feel crappy about their own cool toys are less awesome.

It's not your job to worry about ripple effects when it comes to rules, so if you want the rigger at your table to mark, toss him a dongle (that somehow sounds dirty) and call it a day.  I've got houserules too--the only time I play strict core is when I'm in Missions.

I personally don't think it's a fair characterization that Catalyst decided to nix dongles for RCC just so they could "sell the rigger book" because it's highly speculative and assumes malicious (or perhaps just capitalist, depending on your view) intent. If you're going to make those kinds of accusations, you'd do well to remember the presumption of innocence principle.

[AJCarrington]

I agree but caught a 5 day ban for pointing out how bad the Logic of that statement in reference was... I thought it was for being mean to Triskavanski in a different thread (which I was and would have accepted.) It is a huge hole that'll be fixed in the Riggers Splatbook but pointing out that they are intentionally gimping Riggers with logical fallacies as reasons to require them to buy that Splatbook is highly frowned upon apparently!!!

If you have any questions re the logic or reasoning by the actions of the Admin/Mod team, please contact us directly.

Regards,

The Shadowrun Mod Team

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

I would have except none was given besides a notice being left in a thread that someone had been banned about it. My 2 preceding posts were where I deconstructed the Logical Fallacies given for reasons that RCCs can't use Dongles. Since A. It's impossible to have a 4/5/5/6 at any point under the Rules. It requires at least 1 Complex Turn to switch between a -/5/5/6 or a 4/-/5/6, to swap Dongles (1 more if you have to jump out then back in.) & B. That the price for a Navigator/Tsurgi is close enough to the example as to make a moot point that even if not illegal under the Rules for having a constant 4/5/5/6 statline, the Solid Stat Decks have a higher Stat line per point of price than the Movable Stat Decks do.

So if there are other reasons I'd be highly interested in hearing them. Since while they do have a great Attribute synergy between Riggers & Deckers, they are both heavily Skill Dependant Characters. Those are very different Skill Sets... trying to do both would make them ineffective at either. People just want Sleaze Dongles so they can hide not to try to be Deckers... but then all these hybrid decker builds on here can just use a ¥10,000 Agent on a Commlink with a ¥12,000 Sleaze Dongle and accomplish better results then they can for the most part anyways.

[Raven2049]

ok so everyones telling me i should use my RCC... but i do have a question:

Vulcan Liegelord 5 10R 66,000¥

Fire wall 6 Data Processing 5

Add attribute 2,000¥ Sleaze
Increase Attribute 750¥

Signal Scrub 250
Smoke and mirrors 250

Attack dongle (Rating 3) 27000

Data Processing 5 Firewall 6 Sleaze 4 Attack 3
And you still got 3 slots for programs

Total cost 96250 got the same Matrix Condition Boxes as cyberdeck too plus you can use you sharing rating as noise reduction so +5 sleaze (9 sleaze) plus you know the whole point of a RCC you can slave drones to it and use autosofts

i thought that devices could only recieve one modification? correct me if im wrong but adding a matrix attribute, and increasing a matrix attribute are 2 different modifications. following this line of thought, how are you getting a sleaze of 4? by my count it should only be 2 (add @1, and modify to 2)

If you're wanting all four stats and the flexibility to juggle them around I like the Microtrónica Azteca 300, but then you're not using your RCC.  You'd have to re-log your Persona if you wanted to do any "Real Rigging" through the RCC.  If I were you, I'd lean to upgrading the RCC if you can get by with just Sleaze or Attack.

ya thats my only problem with having a cyberdeck, however, i highly doubt i will be doing both hacking and rigging at the same time during combat. so im not worried about that much.... i do however like the idea (if it can ever be clarified as to what you can and can not do to it) about using my RCC as my deck, even if i cant swap things around specifically for the reason you point out.

[Hobbes]

Add a Matrix Attribute specifically states you can then do Increase a Matrix Attribute so 2 with the appropriate costs and drawbacks.