[Finn]

The more I read the initiative, reaction and intuition augments in CR the more I feel that the essence costs for a lot of the original Augments in the core book are either too high or I just don't understand the limits of Essence and item availability like the writers do.

[Bulshock]

Finn, part of the problem comes from some of the more iconic cyberware (Wired Reflexes, Muscle Replacement, Bone Lacing, Dermal Plating, etc.) tend to have grandfathered in Essence costs.  There would be complaints if you were to lower those costs, even by calling them advances in technology.  Especially when it's something that's done pretty much the exact same thing each edition. 

One of the best ways to go essence wise, if you're looking at building a tanky augmentation char with stat boosts, is to go for a cyberbody.  Because right now you can get Titanium Bone Lacing and level 6 Dermal for 12 extra soak and level 4 muscle toner/augmentation for a total of 6.1 Essence or you can grab Orthoskin 4 for 2 less Essence, or Muscle Replacement for 8.5.  A full cyberbody costs 6.25 and can get higher armor and either more health and almost as good of max stats or equal (possibly better when we get more clarification on Redliner) max stats.  Plus more.  The downside?  You're probably going to be pretty obvious. 

For reflexes... well Synaptic Booster is King in terms of Essence Friendliness at level 3.  Synaptic Accelerator costs less Essence but only has one level, but it can be stacked with Reaction Enhancers.  Wired Reflexes can be turned off unlike the other ones and can be stacked with Reaction Enhancers.  Move-by-Wire has the highest average boost by itself (10-16, avg. 14 vs 3-18 avg. 11 for Wired Reflexes and Synaptic Booster) as well as acting as Skillwires.  The big problem comes in the difference of Essence cost.  1.5 vs. 5 is a no brainer most of the time, doubly so when it's harder to detect.

[Xenon]

highest physical initiative out of chargen is probably adept.
highest armor out of chargen is probably cyborg.
highest attribute enhancement out of chargen is probably chrome/bioware.

[Bulshock]

That's about how it is, Xenon.  You can have as high, or higher average, as the adept with chrome/bioware... but you're looking at spending most of your augmentation money and taking the Restricted Gear quality.

[Reaver]

There is also a point where focusing on armor becomes moot.

While atmor and "soak" ability is important, comes a time that focusing your resources solely on armor and soaking comes at the price of other defensive options. (Such as magical resistence or elemental resistence, matrix...)

So don't forget to spend some time developing your other skills, abilities, and defenses.

[Finn]

Finn, part of the problem comes from some of the more iconic cyberware (Wired Reflexes, Muscle Replacement, Bone Lacing, Dermal Plating, etc.) tend to have grandfathered in Essence costs.  There would be complaints if you were to lower those costs, even by calling them advances in technology.  Especially when it's something that's done pretty much the exact same thing each edition.

I can understand that, I haven't played since Second and Third ed,  I think 5E is great for simplicity compared to the older stuff. They have changed a lot of the essence costs for Cyberware though, and the Nuyen costs, availability is odd considering the mechanics are different, so I can't really compare that. Bone Lacing is quite different from the other editions that I'm familiar with. I've never played 4th so I assume that a lot of the stats are just copy/paste from that edition.

I guess if they can reduce the essence cost for something like Bone Lacing why not Wired Reflexes?

Bone Lacing 3rd
Plastic  .5   7,500¥
Aluminum  1.15   25,000¥
Titanium  2.25   75,000¥

Bone Lacing 4th Dunno

Bone Lacing 5th

Plastic 0.5 — 8R 8,000¥
Aluminum 1 — 12R 18,000¥
Titanium 1.5 — 16R 30,000¥

[Reaver]

Its true some cyber has changed through editions (looking at you MbW), but there is usually also a mechanical change that comes with the reduced/changed costs.

Bone lacing in 3e was very kick ass as I recall (been a while). Almost to the point of a 'must have' piece of cyber!
In 5e, bone lacing is still good, but I don't consider it a 'must have' anymore.


And some little loopholes have been closed, others have opened.

[Bulshock]

Only thing I think I would change would be the Essence cost of Wired Reflexes and Move-by-Wire, since there is Synaptic Booster that costs ~ as much nuyen as Alphaware versions of those but costs less then Deltaware versions when it comes to Essence.  I certainly wouldn't halve their costs, but dropping them to 1 Essence a rank or 1.25 per rank probably wouldn't be unreasonable.

[Finn]

I may have to do that for my homegame Bul. The classic 'ware just doesn't seem quite right when compared with all the Bio or magic options.

[Bulshock]

Only ones that seem way off, to me at least, are the initiative Enhancers.  Personally I would go with the Essence 1.25, given that both give more options then the Bioware version and cyberware is supposed to be more invasive.

[Hobbes]

Wired 1 winds up in a lot of builds that are shorter on cash then essence.  Wired 2 plus Reaction 3 is the only combo I'm aware of that lets you beat the normal +4 augmented limit for a stat, don't underestimate that wireless bonus. 

Even after chrome flesh you'll still see builds with a place for these.  Wired 1 is an easy pick for most AR Deckers, or Samurai with a lower than A resources.  Sammies with lots of Bioware aren't going too mind the Essence hit of Wired 2 and for 149k you can't beat the performance.  Wired is the "Higher Essence, Lower Nuyen" option is all.

[Bulshock]

Yes, but 3x the essence cost tends to make it significantly less attractive.  Wired 2 only costs a little less then Synaptic 2 (Wired 2 is 149k as you said, but Synaptic 2 is only 40k more) for an essence cost of 3x as much.

[Finn]

Yes, but 3x the essence cost tends to make it significantly less attractive.  Wired 2 only costs a little less then Synaptic 2 (Wired 2 is 149k as you said, but Synaptic 2 is only 40k more) for an essence cost of 3x as much.

Yeah that is what made me do a double take on Wired Reflexes. I could see 2x the essence but 3x and a higher availability so you can't even get Grade 2 Alpha and not much of a price gap at chargen bugs me.

I should just create a new thread. I feel bad hijacking this and going on a tangent.

[Hobbes]

With Wired Reflexes you can still increase Reaction with Reaction Enhancers.  With Synaptic Boost, you're done.  For almost the exact same amount of Nuyen you have 3 more Reaction, at a cost of more Essence.  And you don't need to take Reaction Enhancers at Chargen, they're a "cheap" augment that can be picked up later, without removing the Wired Reflexes. 

Synaptic Boost also can't be bought used at most tables.  Wired can if you need to push the Essence to Nuyen ratio even more in one direction.   

My thinking is you've got several options and as long as each option has a niche, you're probably alright.  It's the stuff that nobody takes that needs to be tweaked the most. 

Anyway, houserule away!   

[Top Dog]

With Wired Reflexes you can still increase Reaction with Reaction Enhancers.  With Synaptic Boost, you're done.  For almost the exact same amount of Nuyen you have 3 more Reaction, at a cost of more Essence.  And you don't need to take Reaction Enhancers at Chargen, they're a "cheap" augment that can be picked up later, without removing the Wired Reflexes. 

Synaptic Boost also can't be bought used at most tables.  Wired can if you need to push the Essence to Nuyen ratio even more in one direction.   

My thinking is you've got several options and as long as each option has a niche, you're probably alright.  It's the stuff that nobody takes that needs to be tweaked the most. 

Anyway, houserule away!   

Wired + Reaction Enhancers is a lot more essence compared to Synaptic Boosters. 3.9 is a lot. Remember, that essence you'd save by going Synaptic can be turned into Nuyen by making other pieces of 'ware you're installing (with more favorable tradeoffs) lower grade instead.

You can buy Wired Reflexes 2 used, but that's even more hideously expensive Essence-wise at 3.75 (not counting the Reaction Enhancers). You can't buy rating 3 used (well, you could but you'd die)