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JoaT, the best quality in the game?

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Overbyte

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« Reply #45 on: <07-14-15/1420:28> »
Because resources (i.e. - skill points, etc) are finite at char gen, characters generally roll off the assembly line specialized. Perhaps more specialized than their concept really even calls for. After char gen though, most chars I know want/need to spread out a bit to fill in concept skills and/or everyman skills. Factor in limits and low skills have even more appeal. As long as you are raising two low skills for every high skill you will break even. Anything more than that and you are ahead. Because JoaT is so cheap, all you have to do is buy a couple low level skills and you break even instantly.
It can also really depend on your table. Not every table has 1 of every type of runner in their team. Most often I play with 1 or 2 other people. Not 5 or 6.
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

gilga

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« Reply #46 on: <07-14-15/1951:17> »
It is the best quality. Not because of karma efficiency but because it saves you from awful decisions. It seems that increasing skills above 6 is already expensive karma wise and is not worth it. It feels to me that spending 30 karma to get a specific skill from 6 to 8, also raises a single attribute from 5 to 6, and you get a very wide effect.
Then there is edge that also has the potential to give benefit to every skill you own... still seems like a good investment compared to sinking karma and time into reaching slightly higher levels of your favorate skills. With the karma it takes to take 4 skills from 6 to 9 you can take edge from 1 to 6... then take lucky quality for double the price and take edge to 7 and you still have some left over karma.

Awakened also have other options to get extra dice that are more karma friendly.
Power focus, ally spirits, improved ability for adepts so by the time they are thinking about 6-->7 they could have done many many things.
« Last Edit: <07-14-15/1957:42> by gilga »

FrowningMirror

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« Reply #47 on: <07-16-15/1218:57> »
I can get JoaT at any time though. Couldn't I just hyper specialize a skill first and then take it later?

Hyper specialization IS important. Its just its freaking expensive post character creation to level skills this way.
« Last Edit: <07-16-15/1220:46> by FrowningMirror »

FasterN8

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« Reply #48 on: <07-16-15/1555:13> »
Sure, you can raise a skill to 7 or even 8 before you take JoaT, and that would save you 4 karma.  Meanwhile, the 5 runs it takes you to earn that 30 karma to raise the primary skill from 6 to 8 you might otherwise learn 30 skills at level 1 or *just* 10 skills at level 2.

IMHO, the utility of having an extra 20-30 skill points spread thin is way more than having 2 skill points in a single skill.  If you ask me, that advantage is totally worth the 4 or 8 or even 10 karma you might pay later in "interest". 

FrowningMirror

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« Reply #49 on: <07-16-15/1844:42> »
Sure, you can raise a skill to 7 or even 8 before you take JoaT, and that would save you 4 karma.  Meanwhile, the 5 runs it takes you to earn that 30 karma to raise the primary skill from 6 to 8 you might otherwise learn 30 skills at level 1 or *just* 10 skills at level 2.

IMHO, the utility of having an extra 20-30 skill points spread thin is way more than having 2 skill points in a single skill.  If you ask me, that advantage is totally worth the 4 or 8 or even 10 karma you might pay later in "interest".
Nah I'm a one trick pony at heart.

Its obvious its more efficient, but in opposed tests or combat, only one dice pool matters. The bigger one. And thats why this is an over powered quality, but you don't see it on everyone.

Honestly wish they'd just make it easier to level with karma so that way we wouldn't be forced into this quality.
« Last Edit: <07-16-15/1851:23> by FrowningMirror »

Facemage

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« Reply #50 on: <07-17-15/0627:33> »
Honestly wish they'd just make it easier to level with karma so that way we wouldn't be forced into this quality.

This!

I played a long ago SR2. The dice pools were smaller, because the attributes were not linked to the skills. But the cost to rise an attribute was 1x new value (for skills it was 2x new value and initiation cost was roughly the same). Moreover, the number of attributes was 6. The amount of karma (and money) per run was roughly the same. But it was not impossible to see something like this:
Bod: 6
Agi: 6
Str: 6
Wil: 6
Cha: 6
Intelligence: 6

And the main skills of the char was 8-9.

Now, if you are a mage, your high value skills and almost all attributes will remain the same. Grade 3 combat mage can get +1 to drain (centering) and counterspelling pool (shielding) by paying only 22 karma.  It is quite easy to lower this even to 18 or 15 by paying money and compelling an ordeal. Technically, the result is even better than rising the willpower from 5 to 6; you get +1 dice to masking and a brand new metamagic also. But the cost is much lower, and that's why illogical
« Last Edit: <07-17-15/0644:21> by Facemage »