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Need Some Help In Regards to Prisons

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GMFunkytown

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« on: <09-12-15/2153:39> »
I'm working on an adventure that is going to put my players inside a prison for what will probably be several game sessions. 

I have two questions... first, do you know of a resource where I can read a bit about what prisons are like in the sixth world? Or if anyone wants to give me some cool ideas for how to handle prison in the sixth world.

Also, I'd love it if anyone has a prison map I could use for the game.

Theoric

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« Reply #1 on: <09-12-15/2206:46> »
There are several prisons mentioned in the Seattle 2072 sourcebook. The descriptions are short but you should be able to find some useful info.
« Last Edit: <09-12-15/2208:20> by Theoric »

Spitfire

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« Reply #2 on: <09-12-15/2249:56> »
Just did a quick google for some pictures for you from the time I've been around prisons (I deliver regularly to them) they seem to have some standardization to them, makes sense when you think about it, if its not broken don't fix it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/FremantlePrisonMainCellBlockMap.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Fremantle_Prison_map.svg

Also the High security prison near where I used to live was high security with low personnel because everything after 8pm was on lockdown, no inmates in or out. And the ones nearing completion of there sentence got to work outside the prison (under guard obviously but doing stuff like building sheds, mowing grass, but they had to be on good behavior.) Might or might not be a good time to knock out a guard and steal a truck.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #3 on: <09-12-15/2339:15> »
I have two questions... first, do you know of a resource where I can read a bit about what prisons are like in the sixth world? Or if anyone wants to give me some cool ideas for how to handle prison in the sixth world.

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TheWayfinder

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« Reply #4 on: <09-13-15/1736:49> »
I'm working on an adventure that is going to put my players inside a prison for what will probably be several game sessions. 

I have two questions... first, do you know of a resource where I can read a bit about what prisons are like in the sixth world? Or if anyone wants to give me some cool ideas for how to handle prison in the sixth world.

Also, I'd love it if anyone has a prison map I could use for the game.

In addition to the sources others have quoted (the Lone Star book has good information), I've done a lot of research on this that may take some things into account that the LSS didn't really do. 

Going to prison is a process, and in the Sixth World, it's not all that much different from it is today.  Depending on the area and the crime which the prisoner committed, and certain other assessments, the kind and quality of the prison the convict stays in will vary.  What I've done in the wake of the collapse of the United States is that this required the NAN, TIr Tairngire, and CFS to have to reorganize their prisons because now there's no access to federal facilities for them anymore (no SuperMax prisons) for interstate/most heinous offenders.  Some of these nations haven't improved much since then, though some prisons have been built, of course.

If you are doing this from a Seattle perspective, let's say, then the jurisdiction is the UCAS.  There are prisons in the Seattle Metroplex, and in my game there is a UCAS SuperMax in Bellvue.  This is ideal because the UCAS would like to keep the most dangerous convicts away from the eastern portion of the nation as much as they can, and Seattle's unique situation makes that most beneficial in case of an escape. 

Before anyone goes to the Penitentiary, they have to go through Due Process.  I know that the UCAS believes that you're innocent until proven guilty, but ignore that crap.  If they want to send you to prison, they're going to send you to prison; the arraignment and trial are mere formalities.  So, until your sentencing hearing, the convict is kept in what was the County Jail, which is a larger facility than the local precinct jail, unless someone has posted your bail.  Some crimes will not allow a bail to be set, like murder, rape, arson, and anyone who the judge believes is a flight risk.  In Seattle, that possibility is very high, given how close the NAN is.  If some dink skips bail, that's where bail-bondsmen, better known as bounty hunters, come into play. 

After sentencing, any possessions the convict has on him upon arrest will be held in storage until the convict is released, either on parole or just outright freed.  In the Sixth World, we have issues pertaining to cyberware and magic, so that has to be considered carefully.  Depending on the nature of the crime and the convict in question, those with cybernetics may have devices that inhibit their uses, and those with magical talents may also either be seriously monitored or they are going to be put in a confinement that makes it tough for them to go astral (like an ivy-covered cell-block).  If it comes right down to it, they may constrain the offending magic user by putting him in a strait-jacket for hours at a time, and keep him from talking. 

One idea that I think many nations in the Sixth World may use is a Simsense Prison for particularly dangerous offenders, repeat offenders, and just because it's cheaper than the alternative, which requires the corrections department to feed people quality food, make sure they get some exercise, develop some skills, etc.  Just keep someone constantly in the realm of Simsense, artificially feed him intravenously, occasionally deliver mild shocks to limit muscle atrophy, and so on.  I'm sure in some nations lawyers will have a field day fighting that on behalf of their clients who can afford to pay. 

Shadowrunners are automatically considered dangerous convicts.  But, they are also useful assets.  A corp, nation, or other powerful faction may want to take them out of prison and into a life of indentured servitude for their particular skills. 

In my Shadowrun PDX game, the Tir Tairngire prison system is something everyone wants to avoid, because people often go there to disappear.  Forever.  However, this leads me to something else that isn't widely considered by most of the sourcebooks for the game, and this comes from my own armchair knowledge of criminology (which happens to be one of my hobbies) - most criminals are unstable and stupid.  Your typical shadowrunner is a professional, an asset the Tir doesn't want to blithely shoot in the back of the head if they can help it.  But most criminals are not shadowrunners; they are notoriously narcissistic sociopaths of one degree or another, and they fall in three basic categories:

Non-Violent:  These offenders are your typical white-collar criminals or dinks who are habitual drug abusers, or petty thieves, vandals, armed robbers who don't hurt anyone, car thieves, and some parole violators.  They will be sent to a standard facility, put in orange coveralls, and will do 3 months to 15 years, depending on the crime, and in the Tir will be put in service to the state in chain gangs picking up road-litter, clearing out undergrowth near the forests, help to build roads, etc. 

Violent:  These offenders are usually gang-members, armed robbers who have hurt or killed someone, muggers, some drug-dealers, organized crime hoods, etc.  These guys will be sent to a more secure facility, and in the Tir are only allowed to go on a work crew if they show some trustworthiness and a willingness to rehabilitate.  Typically, they're doing 5-20 years in prison. 

Dangerous:  These offenders are rapists, arsonists, killers of various stripes, gang-leaders, full-blown sociopaths (like serial killers and serial rapists) and various repeat offenders who just didn't get the hint the first two or three times they were in prison.  They may or may not be put in the same prison as the Violent offenders.  The Tir doesn't have too many Dangerous felons in their prisons, because they either shoot them or conduct experiments on them, because the Tir doesn't have the money, generally, to keep these people incarcerated for Life.  Shadowrunners fall into this category because they're professionals, generally speaking, and have the skills and resources to do some damage both in and outside of prison. 
« Last Edit: <09-13-15/1739:27> by TheWayfinder »

Mr. Black

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« Reply #5 on: <09-13-15/1842:32> »
There was a reason Lone Star had such a negative reputation among Shadowrunners. If they caught you, they stripped out all restricted or forbidden cyberware, and either sold it second hand or (much more likely) put it into their officers. And they put any practitioners into mage masks and clamps more or less permanently, until they burned out and had no magic talent left. Bad stuff.

witchdoctor

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« Reply #6 on: <09-14-15/0037:25> »
Do keep in mind most of this stuff only applies if you're arrested outside of Megacorp property. You get captured on-site, unlikely given the nature of Shadowrunning but it could happen, and extraterritoriality applies my friend and things get really ugly, really fast. If you're lucky they throw you in a hole and forget you exist, you're unlucky and there's no telling what could happen to but it's almost guaranteed to be unpleasant upto and including illegal test subject. So the particulars of imprisonment will vary depending on who catches you.

GMFunkytown

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« Reply #7 on: <09-17-15/1548:22> »
This info is REALLY useful. I've already managed to get some great ideas.

I have a follow-up question... what kind of hosts do you think you would see in, say, your average correctional facility (like Bellevue Correctional Facility)? What sort of host rating? Etc...?

The Data Trails book doesn't give an example of that type. The closest they have is Knight Errant precinct host, which is a rating 6. That seems low for a prison, though.

Beta

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« Reply #8 on: <09-17-15/1615:30> »
This info is REALLY useful. I've already managed to get some great ideas.

I have a follow-up question... what kind of hosts do you think you would see in, say, your average correctional facility (like Bellevue Correctional Facility)? What sort of host rating? Etc...?

The Data Trails book doesn't give an example of that type. The closest they have is Knight Errant precinct host, which is a rating 6. That seems low for a prison, though.

Would a prison run a high rating host, or simply run a lot of jamming in the vicinity and something more moderate in level?  (after all, these things are being run to make money, high rating hosts are expensive .... ).  I'm not saying they couldn't have a strong host, just wondering if for what they need (given that most prisons have some degree of physical isolation) they could accomplish a good level of security another way?

witchdoctor

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« Reply #9 on: <09-17-15/2044:37> »
This info is REALLY useful. I've already managed to get some great ideas.

I have a follow-up question... what kind of hosts do you think you would see in, say, your average correctional facility (like Bellevue Correctional Facility)? What sort of host rating? Etc...?

The Data Trails book doesn't give an example of that type. The closest they have is Knight Errant precinct host, which is a rating 6. That seems low for a prison, though.

Would a prison run a high rating host, or simply run a lot of jamming in the vicinity and something more moderate in level?  (after all, these things are being run to make money, high rating hosts are expensive .... ).  I'm not saying they couldn't have a strong host, just wondering if for what they need (given that most prisons have some degree of physical isolation) they could accomplish a good level of security another way?

Why make it an or proposition? Why not do both jammers can be made to only jam specific frequencies so they can be set up to jam everything except for already approved devices. In addition you can run a High-Level host and slave all devices to the host for double protection, first any would be decker or technomancer wanting to take control of any devices on the host would have to hack the host, good luck hacking the host with the noise being generated by smart jammers which are dirt cheap so there's no reason not to liberally apply them through out the prison.

GMFunkytown

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« Reply #10 on: <09-18-15/0831:49> »

Would a prison run a high rating host, or simply run a lot of jamming in the vicinity and something more moderate in level?  (after all, these things are being run to make money, high rating hosts are expensive .... ).  I'm not saying they couldn't have a strong host, just wondering if for what they need (given that most prisons have some degree of physical isolation) they could accomplish a good level of security another way?

Why make it an or proposition? Why not do both jammers can be made to only jam specific frequencies so they can be set up to jam everything except for already approved devices. In addition you can run a High-Level host and slave all devices to the host for double protection, first any would be decker or technomancer wanting to take control of any devices on the host would have to hack the host, good luck hacking the host with the noise being generated by smart jammers which are dirt cheap so there's no reason not to liberally apply them through out the prison.

These are really good points. I had similar thoughts about cost-saving measures that would be taken by the facility. Typically they have very limited budgets.

I am thinking of running a Rating 6 host which handles all security and administrative needs for the prison. Perhaps 2 Junior Sec Spiders could be on duty at all times. A mixture of Area and Directional Jammers will be used to try and keep the noise level around 3-ish at least.

This leads to another question... are overlapping areas of jammers cumulative? I would think not, since that would mean that you could just buy 2 rating 6 jammers to get the effect of a rating 12.

TheWayfinder

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« Reply #11 on: <09-18-15/1509:45> »
Quote
Would a prison run a high rating host, or simply run a lot of jamming in the vicinity and something more moderate in level?  (after all, these things are being run to make money, high rating hosts are expensive .... ).  I'm not saying they couldn't have a strong host, just wondering if for what they need (given that most prisons have some degree of physical isolation) they could accomplish a good level of security another way?

Giving a prison a host can be a security breach in and of itself, especially if you hand over a lot of things to the system, such as opening and closing cells, monitoring prisoners, weapons, and so forth.  We already know how potent a hacker can be, and any technology can be subverted.  So, the toughest prisons to get out of will not have a host at all.  By not having a host, the prison negates the obvious security issue.  Of course, this requires the prison to have more guards, but those guards can be well-coordinated with training and communication devices that do not operate on any host.  We've been doing that for decades, even centuries, prior to there ever being an Internet. 

Magic will be the big issue.  How do you neutralize magical prisoners?  Well, there are a number of ways, but I think the best way is to keep them hooked up to a Simsense Rig, and feed them intravenously.  Taking them out of Simsense for some exercise, the prison could give the magicians an injection of drugs to keep them in a stupor, while mage guards stand watch to neutralize any spell that the prisoners may cast. 

Beta

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« Reply #12 on: <09-18-15/1522:48> »
There is some sort of shackles, etc, which are used on prisoners with magic to prevent its use.  I think I read that if they stay on long enough they can destroy the prisoner's magic entirely, but this is entirely 2nd/3rd hand, I don't have any of the source books that covered that.

Prisons are tremendously expensive to run, and companies are bidding to be the lowest cost provider, and yet to still make money in running of them.  I really doubt they go with no host/lots of guards/manual systems (besides, guards are notoriously corruptible).  I also don't expect that they have a super-expensive bleeding edge host (again: $).  Most likely, IMO, is layered defenses to make hacking difficult, dangerous, and minimally effective.

i.e. physically isolate the prison, keep a fair amount of clear ground around it, and run jammers -- the noise alone will make hacking harder.  Be licensed to run the nastiest defensive measures allowed by law, and start rumours that you run things not allowed by law.  Have a spider monitoring the system at all times.  Have doors between zones, and to the outside world, that absolutely must have a button pushed as well as software approval before the door is opened, and put that button well away from the door with a closed circuit (i.e. not on the net) camera.  Have something similar for the gates out of the prison, and for the gates in the fence around the perimeter grounds around the prison.  Have elementals patrol those perimeter grounds at least some of the time (and not on too obvious of a schedule), and arrange displays for prisoners of what happens to a hog when it is engulfed by an earth elemental.

It isn't making one layer of protection that "can't be broke" because history says that people are so ingenious that someone will always find a way.  Have multiple layers, mixing enough difficulty and danger to make people think that this is really a bad idea.

TheWayfinder

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« Reply #13 on: <09-18-15/1744:14> »
Quote
Prisons are tremendously expensive to run, and companies are bidding to be the lowest cost provider, and yet to still make money in running of them.  I really doubt they go with no host/lots of guards/manual systems (besides, guards are notoriously corruptible).  I also don't expect that they have a super-expensive bleeding edge host (again: $).  Most likely, IMO, is layered defenses to make hacking difficult, dangerous, and minimally effective.

True, guards are notoriously corruptible.  But, so are hosts and the people who maintain them, and in the end there is no perfect system.  However, if by negating one major security issue which always has to be updated, upgraded, and constantly monitored for intrusion and be ready for countermeasures by equally corruptible prison hackers, it's becomes easier to concentrate resources on physical security.

One idea I had for Tir prisons was not to make them so big.  The Tir employs labor camps, among other things, but I had this notion of having smaller and isolated facilities scattered throughout Tir territory.  A small facility is easier to monitor, and guards can be routinely cycled in and out to help prevent them from being corrupted, but it only takes a small amount of time for a guard's corruption to have an effect on an escape.  Also, there is the issue of what I like to call lack of Terrain Knowledge, where a guard, spending time in a certain prison, comes to know the prisoners in his charge and knows their behavior enough to be able to check a problem before it starts.  Constantly changing out guards can make such knowledge problematic on one hand, but may also give guards the experience to spot suspicious issues among prisoners on the other. 

But, if we went with a layered system of hosts, independent in some regard, and made to compete for effectiveness and efficiency, that could work even better than having no hosts at all to hack into.  A competitive nature might also be interesting in regard to each layer or separate host hoping to sabotage the other in some way in order to gain more resources, more turf, so to speak, over the others, and that could be interesting for the poor Players who end up in one of these prisons. 

For the purposes of games, though, we also have to consider that the PCs have to be able to succeed in breaking into or out of prisons.  They should be difficult, but not insurmountable.  I made the mistake once of making a prison in my space opera game completely insurmountable.  It would take a lot of space to explain, but basically, how it worked was that an entire inhospitable world was a prison, and that there was only one way in or out due to navigational issues, and those prisoners who go there are there for life, as short as it would be.  A convict knowing he was going to that prison was offered a chance to kill himself, and most of them took it. 

Beta

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« Reply #14 on: <09-18-15/1817:14> »
A sudden evil thought just occured to me.  Let's say you were a major corp, and interested in AI research, but worried about any AI you created getting loose into the grid and causing havoc.

Now say you owned prisons, and further say that you kept them off the grid.

And just for good measure, say you wanted to see how the AI would evolve, given slightly different parameters at 'birth.' and in slightly different situations, just to understand how stable or not your AI could be.

Now say another corp sends ShadowRunners in to figure what hush-hush operation is being run at those prisons ...