[Reaver]

Oh, I agree.

If you are using a pistol past medium range, you're in trouble!

Chummer is a great free program.... but its not flawless. Still a great program for what it is. (I use it all the time too)

[Whiskeyjack]

I disagree that whips are a no-brainer. Although they are quite good.

It's easy enough to have an ork sam with a Physical Limit of 13, punching at like 16P. Yes, you won't get the insane -AP from the whip, but it's also with totally legal augmentations (so no need to worry about the whip ever getting found), and you'll also have a nice amount of inherent RC from the STR.

[Hobbes]

I disagree strongly.  Gear Access and Perfect Time (I will note I abhor perfect time but I won't dismiss it - unlike the monowhip ) allow you to draw as a free...and still attack as a complex.  That's the important bit.  Gear Access gives you an additional free action.  Using the adept power Quick Draw - and remember, adepts are the ones with the bigger action crunch due to Agility Boost - allows you to run as a free, use a simple to Boost, then your other simple to draw+attack.  You get an additional simple action.

Rapid Draw is .5 PP, vs Perfect Time 5 Karma.  And the list of useful free actions is pretty long, vs. Rapid Draws specific uses.  Adept Powers, Auto-injectors, turning on/off wireless, dropping prone, lots of things to be doing with multiple Free Actions per turn.  Or extending a Mono-whip.... .   And Perfect Time continues to be useful after your weapon is out and you're stuck in. 

[Hobbes]

I disagree that whips are a no-brainer. Although they are quite good.

It's easy enough to have an ork sam with a Physical Limit of 13, punching at like 16P. Yes, you won't get the insane -AP from the whip, but it's also with totally legal augmentations (so no need to worry about the whip ever getting found), and you'll also have a nice amount of inherent RC from the STR.

And sometimes you just need a character with a decent STR.  I was on a run that almost ended when we had to climb a rope.  Small team, just a Shaman, Decker and Face, about 3 Str between them IIRC.  Much levitation was needed.  Same run we ran into a stuck door and almost needed to use explosives.  Hilarity ensued. 

Also, Monowhips, always illegal.  Fists, always legal.  Typically not a concern after you get that Deltaware Fingertip, but until then. 

[Reaver]

The ol' "critical glitch and you cut yourself" is a nasty draw back too for monowhips.


And before you say "yes but you can use Edge to re-roll" as a defense, I watched a character litterally kill themselves with a whip in a single game session. They rolled a critical glitch 4 times!!! (And had only 3 edge).


The randomness of dice just LOVE to fuck over you statistics counters.

[Duellist_D]

Well, if that happens to you with a decent pool, bad luck.

I have a hate-love for the Mono-Whip.
On the plus, its extremely powerful, super easy to conceal and doesn't require you wasting to many points in strength.
On the other hand, its such a boring no-brainer, as someone above me already said. Its also an Exotic Weapon, so no specialization Dice, which is a bit of a shame.

I have a faint idea for a Move-by-Wire Build who uses Skillsofts for the Monowhip and maybe other Exotic weaponry, but its only a rough draft as of now. Whipping without Edge might be a bit suicidal though, but that could be part of the fun.

[Marcus]

The ol' "critical glitch and you cut yourself" is a nasty draw back too for monowhips.


And before you say "yes but you can use Edge to re-roll" as a defense, I watched a character litterally kill themselves with a whip in a single game session. They rolled a critical glitch 4 times!!! (And had only 3 edge).


The randomness of dice just LOVE to fuck over you statistics counters.

What was his pool?
That should be epicly unlikely if your pool is in 16+ range.

[Csjarrat]

No mention of martial arts? Also worth mentioning the diamond/ceramic blades as totally undetectable by scanners

[Whiskeyjack]

To me, Martial Arts are too much buck for not enough bang, barring specific, really-good styles like Wudang Sword.

[Jack_Spade]

Something to add to those options:

Adepts don't need (necessarily) strength: Nervestrike (B&B) disables a target with one or two strikes pretty reliably.

2 pairs of Striking Calluses increase your unarmed damage by 2 - and it stacks. Add Bone Density 4 and you have a completely legal +5 to damage.

Also, Hard Targets has introduced Plaststeel Toe Boots - legal knucks for your feet.
Light Body + Pouncing Dragon is another easy +2 to damage. Combine that with Jiao Di  on a charge for another +1 (and while you are at it, combine it with a Flying Kick) and you have a +4 to damage

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

He also forgot Penatrating Strike Power for adepts. That let's them eventually hit -4 AP for there unarmed attacks, which like killing hands, stacks with some kinds of ware, such as bone mods, striking calluses, etc.

Besides starting money, humans get more edge, which is a big deal always. And human are not treated like crap by most groups, orcs and trolls are.

Also, while straight damage maybe high with the cyber at first, long run games adepts will blow them out of the water with the dice pools, which will force accuracy to matter. Max skill of 12(13) plus maxed increase ability of 6(7) gives a dice pool of 18(20) pre attributes, specializations, or gear mods (such as weapon foci). Also, so your adept maybe addicted to his Qi and weapon foci, point? Massive boost to weak areas without needing to shrewd is soul early on? Oh, sad day.

Throwing or bows are nice, but can require lage investments (and gear for bow) to be truly practical. Throwing, less so if your using grenades. As of hard targets, adepts or mystic adepts might soon be the rulers of bow land. Biggest issue with both as primary range weapons is no way to impose defense pool penalties, unlike with automatics skill group.

One trick pony let's you steal one of the useful martial art maneuvers without focusing on one style. I like finishing strike on high initiative high edge characters. But it is a personal flavor thing.

[Reaver]

The ol' "critical glitch and you cut yourself" is a nasty draw back too for monowhips.


And before you say "yes but you can use Edge to re-roll" as a defense, I watched a character litterally kill themselves with a whip in a single game session. They rolled a critical glitch 4 times!!! (And had only 3 edge).


The randomness of dice just LOVE to fuck over you statistics counters.

What was his pool?
That should be epicly unlikely if your pool is in 16+ range.

As I recall, it was in the 14 dice range, so not a bad pool at all.

But a little history is in order.... the player in question is a number cruncher. He likes to figure out his odds and chances. (So like 70% of the people here...)

He is also Fate little whipping boy. No word of a lie, this guy as THE MOST epically bad luck when it comes to dice. Doesn't matter the game, doesn't matter how many dice or how big of a modifier he has, he WILL screw himself over at least twice a night. In fact, that is the only thing you can count on!

Just how bad is his luck? He is the only guy I have ever watched roll 8 ones in a row (on a D20)! Sonething that should be staticially impossible... (odds of that are 1:25,000,000, or so he says)

And, his craptastic luck with dice has haunted him for the 15+ years I have gamed with him....

so yea, crunch those numbers all you like, if you have "Jeff sized luck", you're still screwed!

[Jack_Spade]

Another word on weapon foci:
Knucks are great if combined with elemental weapon. Fire gives you AP 6 - a great bargain compared to penetrating strike.

Adepts have now also access to one spell. Element Aura increases your unarmed DV by your hits and gives you the appropriate AP.
Focused concentration and some reagents/edge will make you into an exceptional damage machine.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Only issue with elemental weapon, etc. is right armor mods can cripple those powers, where penetrating strike will always work. Also, elemental weapon requires a simple to activate plus weapon foci, which is kinda unnecessary for unarmed adepts (except dice pool mods). That said, adept spell has added all kinds of cool options for adapts to use.

[Slamm-O!]

I would love to see some actual builds of a usable brawler / thrower.