[ryanstark1989@yahoo.com]

So my idea is to create a mainly non-combat/support character, who would be best described as a tinker mage. The idea is to be a logic-based mage that otherwise uses lots of hardware/medical/explosive/other logic skills with whatever support spells are used. I'm thinking dwarf would be my metatype, but haven't gotten too far into chargen aside from that. Or rather, nothing is really concrete yet. so far this is what I'm doing:

Priority
A: Magic (Assensing & Spellcasting to start at rating 5)
B: Metatype (dwarf)
C: Attributes
D: Skills
E Resources

Attributes

BOD 3
AGI 2
REA 2
STR 3
CHA 2
INT 5
LOG 5
WIL 7
EDG 5
MAG 6

Skills

Armorer 4
Assensing (+1 from karma)
Chemistry (+1 from karma)
Computer (+1 from karma)
Demolitions 4
Hardware 5
Perception 3
Sneaking 4
Spellcasting 6
Summoning 6

Spells

Ice Spear
Manabolt
Heal
Chaotic World
Hot Potato
Improved Invisibility
Opium Den
Silence
Stealth
Trid Phantasm

Insect Shaman

Armor and other things not selected, probably will use drugs to increase initiative to something not terrible for cases when combat is necessary. most things are totally variable since this is just a concept character at this point.

[Whiskeyjack]

Wait, are you saying your "school" of magic is insect shaman?

Those are not intended to be PCs.

[bdyer]

1:  Is insect shaman your tradition?  If so you will be hunted down by everyone on the spot and I doubt you will survive until you get masking.  Also insect shamans definitely would not view the world as a tinker

2: Your spell selections don't really jive with the concept.  At least some of them need to match.  I would consider the following spells to match your concept: catalog, spatial sense, magic fingers, increase gear limits.

3: I personally think dwarf is pushing you starting points too thin


Here is how I would build him (please not I don't have the program to create the nice table so there might be some formatting errors)
Sum to 10 generation
A: Magic
B: skills
B: attributes
E: resources
E: metatype human

Bod: 3
Agil:2
Reaction:5
Str:1
Cha:2
Int: 5
Log:5
Wil:5
Edge: 3
Magic: 6

Skills
Spellcasting group 5 ( increase spellcasting and countering to 6 with 2 more points)
Summoning 5 (increase to 6 with another skill point)
Binding 5 (free)
Automotive mech 4
Hardware 4
Armorer 4
Chemistry 4
Demolitions 4
First aid 4
Assesning 6
Blades 4
Perception 6

Spells:
Magic fingers
Catalogue
Increase attribute (logic)
Increase gear limits
Spatial sense
( choice of indirect spell)
Manabolt
Fix
Improved invis

Qualities
Focused concentration rating 5
Mentor spirit ( choice to increase manipulation spells)
Any choice of negative qualities



With some rearranging of skills and taking negative qualities for starting money it is possible to add hacking to his arsenal

[ryanstark1989@yahoo.com]

i like it. yeah, human looks like itll work a bit better, and i just chose insect shaman out of lack of ideas, probably hermetic for simplicity since the oddball spirit types I don't really think I'll use enough to warrant much outside what hermetics can handle. also for that build with all the 6's, how do skill groups play into the max starting maxed skills? are the sorcery groups that are shifted into 5 and then spellcasting/counterspelling at an additional point  not counting toward that max or how does that work for legality? As i see it it looks like assensing and perception at  6 violate it regardless, just unsure other things would have to be lowered to accommodate it; with those either both at 5 or perception 6 and assensing 5 I can't really do much. Also unsure if Chummer is bad at handling breaking skill groups or if there is some weirdness that I don't know of, but for some reason you can break sorcery at 5, but can't raise more points, just pick up specializations. So I may pick up herolab for this character if necessary, otherwise I'll have to fiddle with the sheet in some other fashion or some such

[Whiskeyjack]

There's not a cap on the number of skills you can start with at 6 in this edition, if that's what you're implying.

[bdyer]

i like it. yeah, human looks like itll work a bit better, and i just chose insect shaman out of lack of ideas, probably hermetic for simplicity since the oddball spirit types I don't really think I'll use enough to warrant much outside what hermetics can handle. also for that build with all the 6's, how do skill groups play into the max starting maxed skills? are the sorcery groups that are shifted into 5 and then spellcasting/counterspelling at an additional point  not counting toward that max or how does that work for legality? As i see it it looks like assensing and perception at  6 violate it regardless, just unsure other things would have to be lowered to accommodate it; with those either both at 5 or perception 6 and assensing 5 I can't really do much. Also unsure if Chummer is bad at handling breaking skill groups or if there is some weirdness that I don't know of, but for some reason you can break sorcery at 5, but can't raise more points, just pick up specializations. So I may pick up herolab for this character if necessary, otherwise I'll have to fiddle with the sheet in some other fashion or some such

You can have any number of rank 6 skills.  I see no rule that says you can't break groups at char creation, and yes chummer is bad at that.  Heremetic would mesh the best for a tinker, but chose any logic tradition that sounds good for you

[Hobbes]

And here is a not sumto10 high logic Mystic Adept.


== Info ==
Movement: 6/12
Karma: 4
Human
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 6
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 11
Nuyen: 2735

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: C - Adept, Magician, or Technomancer
Skills: A - 46 Skills/10 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 3
REA: 4
STR: 1
CHA: 1
INT: 5
LOG: 6
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                                     6
Initiative:                               9 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative:                 9 + 1d6
Astral Initiative:                 10 + 2d6
Matrix AR Initiative:           9 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:       5 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:         5 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:         10
Stun Damage Track:                 11

== Limits ==
Physical:                                   3
Mental:                                       8
Social:                                       5
      Custom Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral:                                       8

== Active Skills ==

Assensing                                   : 6                                           Pool: 11
Banishing                                   : 6                                           Pool: 12
Binding                                       : 6                                           Pool: 12
Biotechnology                           : 4                                           Pool: 10
Counterspelling                       : 6 [Combat]                        Pool: 12 (14)
Cybertechnology                       : 4                                           Pool: 10
First Aid                                   : 4                                           Pool: 10
Computer                                  :6                                              Pool: 12
Medicine                                     : 4                                           Pool: 10
Perception                                 : 6                                           Pool: 11
Pistols                                       : 6 [Semi-Automatics]      Pool: 12 (14)
Sneaking                                     : 6 [Urban]                          Pool: 9 (11)
Spellcasting                             : 6 [Health]                        Pool: 12 (14)
Summoning                                   : 6                                           Pool: 12

Notes: Conjuring skill group at 6 and Biotech group at 4.
== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Addiction (Mild) (Alcohol)
Day Job (20 hrs)
Distinctive Style
Focused Concentration (Rating 4)
In Debt II
Mystic Adept
Poor Self Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Personal Hygiene)

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Hermetic, Resist Drain with WIL + LOG (11))
Heal                                             DV: F-4
Increase Reflexes (Limited) DV: F-2
Manabolt                                     DV: F-3
Mob Mind                                     DV: F+1
Physical Mask                           DV: F-1

== Powers ==
Astral Perception
Attribute Boost (AGI) Rating: 2
Combat Sense Rating: 6
Improved Ability (skill) (Pistols) Rating: 3

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                                                12
Custom Ballistic Mask                              2
      +Sensor Rating 3
            +Ultrasound
      +Thermographic Vision
      +Vision Magnification

== Weapons ==
Browning Ultra-Power
      +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
      +Gas-Vent 3 System
      +Laser Sight
      +Personalized Grip
      +Spare Clip
      +Spare Clip
      +Spare Clip
      Pool: 12 (14)      Accuracy: 7      DV: 8P      AP: -1      RC: 4
Unarmed Attack
      Pool: 2      Accuracy: 3      DV: 1S      AP: -      RC: 1

== Commlink ==
Nixdorf Sekretar (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 2)
Agent Rating 3

== Gear ==
Ammo: APDS (Heavy Pistols) x30
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Heavy Pistols) x10
AR Gloves
Contacts Rating 3
      +Image Link
      +Flare Compensation
      +Vision Enhancement Rating 1
Fetish
Medkit Rating 3
Slap Patch, Trauma Patch
Trodes


Note, not missions legal because of Bad Debit negative quality, but can be fixed if needed.  And you probably want to split up the points in Medical Group skill with the engineering skill group for your character concept, and scrape up a couple points for Armorer and Hardware, spell list should be tweaked for your concept.  If your table doesn't do Sumto10 this will get you in the ballpark of what you're aiming at.

[Whiskeyjack]

You can break skill groups in the karma spending phase, but not in the skill points phase.

So you can take the Sorcery group at 5, and then spend karma to buy Spellcasting 6 and break the group, but you can't allocate Sorcery Group 5 and spend a skill point to boost Spellcasting to 6.

As an aside, taking skill groups for anything you seriously want to delve deep into is a bad idea, because (1) raising a skill with karma is too expensive; (2) buying specialties with karma is too expensive.

[falar]

As an aside, taking skill groups for anything you seriously want to delve deep into is a bad idea, because (1) raising a skill with karma is too expensive; (2) buying specialties with karma is too expensive.

Is this advice strictly for Character Creation, or does it apply to Advancement as well? I consider a skill group of 6 where you're going to use everything to be a fairly decent investment at Character Creation and the 7 karma after creation a fairly cheap price for two more dice.

[Whiskeyjack]

Mostly for chargen, simply how the free points to karma math minigame works out. Though I find the training times completely absurd.

[falar]

Though I find the training times completely absurd.

Yeah, that's a true statement - although more for the ability to actually advance rather than them not making sense. A little over a year of training to go from Professional to Best in the Business actually feels a bit low.

[ryanstark1989@yahoo.com]

hmmm. aren't MysAds generally looked down upon for being too hack-y? that looked like an interesting ish build, my biggest concern with the super low body builds is the whole "geek the mage" adage. if I look obviously weak as a runner, if i find myself in combat i'd be sort of screwed, IMO. I had to fiddle with the first posted/suggested group, since totally unable to do anything to raise those skill groups with anything other than karma and thats hardly feasible. Unsure if I should swap my starting free groups to spellcasting and counterspelling, and switch my 5 points in groups to conjuring, idk. I think having a random 5 points in banishing would be more valuable than 5 in ritual spellcasting, since I have yet to really run into anyone who uses rituals, although I imagine if I had knowledge of an ambush or it was a protection run of some sort maybe then it would be useful.

Either way, i'll be stuck with that sumto10 build on skills, if I aim on getting counterspelling and spellcasting to 6, keeping my conjuring group unbroken (eh), then I have assensing 6, perception 6, armorer 4, blades 2, chemistry 4, demolitions 4, first aid 4, and hardware 4. Without looking at karma spent for nuyen/etc it seems a bit feasible although not having summoning/binding maxed is a bit irksome.

[Whiskeyjack]

hmmm. aren't MysAds generally looked down upon for being too hack-y?

What?

my biggest concern with the super low body builds is the whole "geek the mage" adage. if I look obviously weak as a runner, if i find myself in combat i'd be sort of screwed, IMO.

Enemies are not gonna assume that every skinny guy is a mage. Now if you fling a fireball, you're obviously a mage. Set out a debuff, and they may not know who did it.

First Aid 4 is a dice pool of 9 and healing 4 boxes max, which is inferior to a simple R6 medkit.

[ryanstark1989@yahoo.com]

i primarily play via online community and haven't heard anyone say anything kind about mysads, so unsure. plus projections from what i've seen other mages play is pretty handy for scouting, which might be a handy thing for this type of character to think about using. yeah, first aid i was iffy about, but it was either that or adding a healing spell to my repertoire, which i suppose i could do. frees up some points either to make some 5 pointers or something, maybe do pistols instead of blades since being bladed would put me in a bit more danger i'd think. still a crappy dice pool, but shrug

putting first aid points into automotive mechanic i suppose, and going with these spells

ice spear
manabolt
Spatial Sense
Heal
Increase LOG
Improved Invisibility
Fix
Increase Gear Limits
Levitate
Magic Fingers

gonna ponder about whether or not i actually want a mentor spirit and what gear i want. a manipulation sustaining focus maybe but eh. maybe health actually so i could sustain that log boost. expensive though, so maybe later

[falar]

Mystic Adepts are more grudgingly seen as "usually the best way to do whatever it is you want to do." The grudging is because people hate for there to be one true choice at something.

But seriously, the only role that they can't do better than a "classic" whatever is rigger and that's because it takes a control rig to really get the classic rigger bennies.