[Kirito99]

I don't know if it right place to submit thread, if not - please move to correct board.

I ran most of official missions modules and convention packs since New York season and I have impression same as in Pathfinder Organized Play- that very optimized builds designed exclusive in missions enviroment slowly corrodes difficulty level on this kind of play

Without spoilers, last few Missions and half of Boundless Mercy are very tough for typical, non optimized runners. Of course Gm has plenty of possibilities to tweak the difficulty, but force 7+ spirits and 14+ dicepool opponents aren't that common even in high paid runs like these in Bloody Business. I understand design concept - most of players have very specialized builds with 20+ dices in primary area and they should have some sweat on the run. But for rest of them , with less excellent builds , almost every session with life on the edge is little bit frustrating.

I would like missions team to include my observation in planning future modules- a little bit more "average" missions for casual players, even at cost few nuyens. ( Note that I don't know season 5 missions after "Take a Chance" ).

[Wakshaani]

Question: Where do you think Take a Chance fits in on that? The opposition was intended to be weaker than normal, due to the environmental factors, but I don't know how well that worked out, if at all.

[Reaver]

A more detailed write up of exactly what and where problems came up would be more helpful to them then a single paragragh.

As well as an overview of the characters at the table. You've given them the mechanical equavilate of "The car is making a funny noise" which isn't entirely helpful....

Was your table a bunch of generalists? Were they playing "average Joe's thrown into the shadows?"

Where was the trouble? Was it in planned encounters, or in optional ones? Was it in the legwork parts? Or just combat? Was the team (generally) undergeared (nothing bigger then a light pistol)?.


They need details!

[Kirito99]

@ Waakshani
I don't want to spoil, all I can say that opposition typically has 12-14+ dicepool and decent initiative score. To be fair this is great run , but not for casual players with similar pools in combat skills. To be precise we speak about typical four runners team- I think that 6+ players could smash opposition even in 12 dice pool in combat skills. Unfortunately after season 3 it is rare to have in adventure  " 2 grunts per runner" note, maybe this is the problem. Also, every three teams which I have GMed figured out risk about heavy weapons/automatics full auto danger in this run and they know street grimoire rules about water , so decided to leave tons of electronics, "Common sense" in this run make this adventure harder than intended.

@Reaver
Most of problem is about not having 17+ dice pool in main combat skill. When we have constant fights  12/14 DP vs 12/14 DP  it is annoying to be on edge on every run. Pregens form corebook would have problems to survive all season with very unspecialized builds they have.

[Marcus]

I'd suggest Sending your players to the Character Creation and Critique board. I'm sure builds can be straightened out.
When we did mission play we found some ground rules like initiative die max and similar sorts of agreements to be helpful.
It kept fights interesting.

[Kirito99]

I fully agree Marcus, but I see this matter in wide perspective : difficulty is increased because many players copypaste very optimized  builds from messageboards. It is same problem as in pathinder society - because of dominance very powerful builds adventures difficulty was slowly increased, in consequence many casual players was driven away from organized play because without excellent builds they were marginalized.
I suppose similar process is in progress in Missions format. All I can do is ask mission developers  to slightly reconsider difficulty level. Slower plot progression and more easier  missions in season is IMHO way to go.

[Beta]

I think they also assume that characters go through the missions season, starting from the beginning.  I.E.  that by the later missions the characters are stronger than at the start of the season.  I'm not sure if that makes up for the difference that you see or not, but something to keep in mind.

[Kirito99]

Right, but after charcter creation, even after many runs, you aren't able to catch up with runners designed to be god-level in their work during chargen( time and nuyen consuming far above typical missions career).  This time I warn new players that without heavy optimizing during chargen, even at cost dumping obvious skills/qualities, it could be harsh in some missions.

[Marcus]

I fully agree Marcus, but I see this matter in wide perspective : difficulty is increased because many players copypaste very optimized  builds from messageboards. It is same problem as in pathinder society - because of dominance very powerful builds adventures difficulty was slowly increased, in consequence many casual players was driven away from organized play because without excellent builds they were marginalized.
I suppose similar process is in progress in Missions format. All I can do is ask mission developers  to slightly reconsider difficulty level. Slower plot progression and more easier  missions in season is IMHO way to go.

Pfs has something of a bad rap for many reasons. But it is rarely a difficulty issue, a GM should be able to mitigate the deadliness of any encounter, or increase it's difficulty. This fact holds true across systems. Pathfinder is currently in such book blot that it's in danger of jumping the shark. Now admittedly there are some glaring counter examples in fps, at least one of the new player dungeons intro mods had two encounters with stat draining magic weapon required to damage undead. I would certainly describe such things as over the reasonable line. But having both played and run that mod I can say it does show the players how bad it can be.

However that is the tiny minority if you exam the lower mods as a whole. Many of which were very simply. I would say fps has had something like one very dangerous mod every year or so. However, missions have never been that dangerous in my experience. Chicago certainly brought a new level in couple Examples and certainly it is disadvantageous to magic several occasions, but that risks ya run. I recall at a con once running across a bunch of spirit possessed trolls, when we wandered slightly off script. Part of it being that our team took a stroll through Some machine gun fire and slightly irritating the gm. But it all worked out for the best and made for an interesting if somewhat long fight.