[gradivus]

However taking Magic D (Adept MR 2) Taking 4 ESS of ware (dropping to Maximum Magic 2, MR 0) and then using 15 karma in the karma step to bring you to MR 2 is legal.

As far as sohi's example, he got the order wrong.... you put the special point into magic raising it to 5 and in resource step buy the bioware dropping it to 4.

[Duellist_D]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

[kyoto kid]

The build order IS important.  Duelist_D is totally right.

...could I get a page citing that indicates this as being an "absolute" rule?

Also, a lot of members (even GMs who play when they get the chance) in the Missions group I'm in use either Hero Lab or Chummer and this doesn't seem to be an issue as long as the numbers jive.

Anyway this may all be pretty much moot as Missions does accept the Point (Karma) build system. MA can be bought to 6 at the outset without taking as huge a hit in another area as the priority system imposes. Yeah the character may not be as powerful at the outset, but she would be more well balanced.

[Hobbes]

... or spend your PP on Improved Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, and utility powers.  Initiative doesn't get pinged by BC and the + to defense tests from Combat Sense and bonus Reaction stacks and only gets penalized once.

And instead of spreading around your foci, pick one thing, put all the moneys into it?  Or splash a point of 'ware?   

[gradivus]

... or spend your PP on Improved Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, and utility powers.  Initiative doesn't get pinged by BC and the + to defense tests from Combat Sense and bonus Reaction stacks and only gets penalized once.

And instead of spreading around your foci, pick one thing, put all the moneys into it?  Or splash a point of 'ware?   

It's also my understanding that initiative does not get effected by BC.

[kyoto kid]

...could I get a page citing that indicates that Qualities cost or give as much karma as they do as being an "absolute" rule? Or at least that essence loss due to augmentations is an "absolute" rule? Maybe racial attribute limits? No? Well it's time to make a human with BOD 9 then!

...not funny.

If you have nothing to say that is constructive, then don't bother saying anything at all.

I thought better of participants here, guess I was mistaken.

[FastJack]

A warning has been sent to a user for posting non-helpful criticism. Please remember to keep your replies helpful and considerate.

[Whiskeyjack]

Personally, I really enjoy playing hamstrung characters sometimes. The struggle makes it all the more worth while. I used to read Thor comics back in the 80's/90's and the writers were just CONSTANTLY putting some kind of curse on him or screwing up the hammer, or turning him into a frog, etc. Made for some really dramatic scenes. As a result, I often gravitate toward characters that are fundamentally "fucked" in some way. Sometimes, ya just gotta go places you shouldn't ever go and do shit you have no business doing. That's life, Chummer.

I understand how a lot of people don't think that sort of thing is fun though.

...I don't mind challenges, but when 80% of what the character is trained do is effectively neutralised all the time, it makes one (at least myself) ask what am I doing here?

Crikey, I already feel like a modern day "Job" in RL the way it is, would like one of the few diversions I pursue to be somewhat more enjoyable.

Like i said, I totally understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable for a lot of people. But my favorite scenes in action movies are always the ones where characters have to do exactly the things they're bad at, when none of their advantages work anymore. I love it when the wand breaks, when conan has to be sneaky, when john mclane has no shoes, when spiderman has to go out into the flat plains, that kinda shit. It aint for everyone.

While i can understand the appeal, there are only a few RPGs I go to to play the mechanical underdog (even if many cast you as the narrative underdog). When I play an RPG, I don't like to feel like the very setting is constraining my power or agency. This is the kind of thing I like to watch in a movie, not play out in a game. I agree with Poindexter.

Which isn't to say that if others prefer the other way, that they're "doing it wrong." It's just not appealing to me. Hence why I wouldn't want to play a magic user in Chicago.

[Poindexter]

Personally, I really enjoy playing hamstrung characters sometimes. The struggle makes it all the more worth while. I used to read Thor comics back in the 80's/90's and the writers were just CONSTANTLY putting some kind of curse on him or screwing up the hammer, or turning him into a frog, etc. Made for some really dramatic scenes. As a result, I often gravitate toward characters that are fundamentally "fucked" in some way. Sometimes, ya just gotta go places you shouldn't ever go and do shit you have no business doing. That's life, Chummer.

I understand how a lot of people don't think that sort of thing is fun though.

...I don't mind challenges, but when 80% of what the character is trained do is effectively neutralised all the time, it makes one (at least myself) ask what am I doing here?

Crikey, I already feel like a modern day "Job" in RL the way it is, would like one of the few diversions I pursue to be somewhat more enjoyable.

Like i said, I totally understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable for a lot of people. But my favorite scenes in action movies are always the ones where characters have to do exactly the things they're bad at, when none of their advantages work anymore. I love it when the wand breaks, when conan has to be sneaky, when john mclane has no shoes, when spiderman has to go out into the flat plains, that kinda shit. It aint for everyone.

While i can understand the appeal, there are only a few RPGs I go to to play the mechanical underdog (even if many cast you as the narrative underdog). When I play an RPG, I don't like to feel like the very setting is constraining my power or agency. This is the kind of thing I like to watch in a movie, not play out in a game. I agree with Poindexter.

Which isn't to say that if others prefer the other way, that they're "doing it wrong." It's just not appealing to me. Hence why I wouldn't want to play a magic user in Chicago.

Word.

[kyoto kid]

However taking Magic D (Adept MR 2) Taking 4 ESS of ware (dropping to Maximum Magic 2, MR 0) and then using 15 karma in the karma step to bring you to MR 2 is legal.

As far as sohi's example, he got the order wrong.... you put the special point into magic raising it to 5 and in resource step buy the bioware dropping it to 4.

...OK, back to the matter at hand.

I wen ahead and built a character from square one following the sequence of "steps",  I started with a magic of 4 (Priority C), applied the one SA point to raise it to 5 then moved on to purchase by qualities, skills, gear and implants in order the final which reduced the character's MA to 3. So, having 20 Karma that I didn't spend (went light in the positive qualities and didn't put any into other attributes or  Resources) I could take that "leftover Karma" in the "Karma Step" and apply it to MAG to bring it back to the maximum of 4?

Priorities assigned:

A: Attributes (24 APs)
B: Resources (275,000¥)
C: Magic/Adept (4 MR  = 4 PP's 2 rating to one skill)
D: Skills (22 SPs with no skill group points)
E: Metatype. (Human, 1 SA point)

[ZeldaBravo]

Absolutely.

[kyoto kid]

A warning has been sent to a user for posting non-helpful criticism. Please remember to keep your replies helpful and considerate.

...thank you,

I'm still learning the ropes of 5th ed. (much different than 3rd which I last played), and only am looking for clarification of things that seem either confusing or vague which I have been running into.

[ZeldaBravo]

Look, the priority system combines linear (points) and progressive (karma) methods. If people don't follow the established order of actions during the character creation then they will get different results, potentially giving someone an unfair advantage or a disadvantage over others. That difference has nothing to do with optimisation or minmaxing. 2+2*2 equals 6 if you follow the order, or 8 if you don't.
There's an example: person A picks priority C for metatype that gives him an Elf with 3 SAPs. Person A then proseeds to spend the SAPs to raise Edge to 4 and spends 25 karma to get Edge 5. Meanwhile, person B spends 25 karma to raise edge 1->3, and after that applies an Elf 3 pattern, giving her Edge 6.
Person B has an advantage not because they are being smart about building a character but due to ignoring the build order.
Steps 1 to 8 provide a uniform pattern for players to start in uniform conditions. You wouldn't join a Street Scum campaign with a High Life Prime Runner character, right?

[kyoto kid]

...umm like I mentioned, I followed the sequence of steps "as prescribed", and it all worked out.  No cheats or "skips". One of the last build steps one does before going "career" is to spend unused Karma so I did, so everything was "totally by the book"  (even though I still cannot find the page where it specifically states one is required to follow the steps in order).

Even had enough to get a Weapon Focus 4 (which she needs to earn Karma to bond).

[Whiskeyjack]

What did you spend karma on instead of bonding? I might look into whether you can cut back or take more NQs to do that.