[Kot]

Wasn't there Barsaive in Chaos also?

And ED still needs improvements. And a lot of them...

[The_Gun_Nut]

There was.  I think it was the proverbial straw, but I could be wrong.

ED could use some tweaks, to be sure.  Every system out there needs something one way or another.  I don't think it needs to be substantially altered, though.  For me, a lot of what makes Earthdawn special is how the system interacts with and reveals the world setting.  Changing it too dramaticly would pull the feel of the world away from what makes it special.

[Kot]

I was talking about making the rules more modern, with more interaction points and rules like extended tests..

[The_Gun_Nut]

What do you mean by "interaction points?"

[Kot]

EDGE, and other kinds of mechanical influence beyond simple rolls.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Well, there is Karma for adepts and their Discipline talents and Half-Magic tests.  That is what separates them from the average joes.

Also, a character can elect to "push" their abilities by sacrificing some strain (small amount of damage) to get a +3 bonus to any kind of test.  If they really need something to work they can take a blood wound, physically harming themselves and getting a Wound (a longer term penalty that they suffer after the test), in order to get a +7 bonus to a single test.

These are all in-game already, but not often utilized due to the price involved (damage points).  Both have an in-game, in-character rationale behind them even, like most things in ED do.  There are few game settings out there where core game concepts can and are discussed by characters in-game and in-character; Earthdawn mechanics can be discussed between characters and it doesn't break them OOC.

[Kot]

Karma is not as flexible, as Edge, and Half-magic doesn't really do much, even in Third Edition of ED. Yeah, i know of life magic methods, and they fit the setting perfectly.

I'm just not satisfied with them. I like the way that works in Shadowrun 4th, and Savage Worlds, for example. More possibilities for the player, like a second attempt, failure negation, life-saving, and such...

[The_Gun_Nut]

Earthdawn has all of those.  They are just called talents (and yes, they are upper Circle talents).

I think the disconnect is from you wanting all the PC's to have them, not just the higher Circle ones.  While I see that might be interesting to model (and I have a couple of ideas about how that could come about), too much might devalue the upper Circle abilities that grant adepts those abilities.

The Life Check talent lets a PC essentially save vs. death.  Second Chance does exactly what the name of the talent does:  Grant a second chance at an important dice roll.  The Vitality talent combined with any other healing ability, including Life Check, makes that character incredibly durable (essentially allowing a character to heal up to four times as much in a day, six times as often, it's that ridiculous).  With the right talent knacks (think specialties or new powers for a given ability), a PC can fall from hundreds of feet up and simply bounce off the ground onto his feet with no damage, bring a critically wounded comrade into a bonfire and heal them, stare at an object and make it shatter, or pick up a loaf of stale bread and beat someone to death with it.

To reiterate, I think that there is some room for what you want in ED, but it must be included in such a way as not to make the other abilities redundant or underpowered.

[Kot]

Earthdawn has all of those.  They are just called talents (and yes, they are upper Circle talents).

Yeah, i know that, being around as a GM and Player from 1st ed to Third, and owning most ED3 books. ;P

I think the disconnect is from you wanting all the PC's to have them, not just the higher Circle ones.  While I see that might be interesting to model (and I have a couple of ideas about how that could come about), too much might devalue the upper Circle abilities that grant adepts those abilities.
)...)
To reiterate, I think that there is some room for what you want in ED, but it must be included in such a way as not to make the other abilities redundant or underpowered.

Yes. But look at it that way - ED is still in roleplaying rules bronze age. It looks - if you judge by the rules - as rough, as Laubenstein's artwork form the FASA times. No teamplay rules, no extended tests. Crafting rules are pulled out of thin air, and don't really support any kind of gameplay beyond 'don't make your own stuff'.
How many groups reach 13th circle by just playing? We didn't - my ED character just reached fifth circle. After three years of play...
ED should be Heroic. Rerolls help with that, as much as exploding dice.
I know i'm a bit bitter here, but looking at Shadowrun rules for the current edition i cannot help that. ED is not as good, as SR. Probably never will be.

[The_Gun_Nut]

For the crafting aspect of it, my players are digging into that, and it's proving to be very interesting.  The small magic items are fairly formulaic, and the large ones are more story driven, but they all fit into the ruleset.

Assisted rolls do need some examining.  I have an idea for that, too, if you'd like to head over to the Earthdawn forums on RedBrick instead of cluttering up these (or we could just message each other).

[Kot]

Heh. That'd be better. Let's get back to the Last Knight of the Crimson Spire. Which is a legend in Earthdawn already.

[The Laughing Man]

So I've been running a game for a while now. After checking out the Ancient files website I've become really interested in the whole metaplot thing involving Harlequin and the Horrors.

I'm running what is a now a 3 year campaign and my game is at the point where most real threats end up being on the epic scale. So I figured this is perfect for some end game type stuff, to fill in parts where my own convoluted, rediculously epic ending of course, leaves off.  

Problem is outside of 4th edition my knowledge on books is very dim. Which books or supplementals should I check out to find good info on the metaplot and Harlequin?

[FastJack]

Harlequinn is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End, House of the Sun, and Beyond the Pale.

[Longshot23]

Harlequinn is the old campaign book that starts it all, giving you the idea that H is a baad mutha- "SHUT YO' MOUTH!"

Just talkin' 'bout Harlequinn...

After that, try to get a copy of Harlequinn's Back that details his history with the Horrors. He also pops up in Worlds Without End, House of the Sun, and Beyond the Pale.

And those are just the ones he's identified in.  Hands up anyone who doesn't think he uses disguises and Masking . . .

[Doc Chaos]

And for everyone who does raise their hands, I've got some nice swampland to sell you...