[Beta]

From what I’ve read from people running with street scum, is that it really discourages Street Samurai and decker builds, because both of those are generally dependent on high amounts of nuyen.  You just can’t get a useful deck (maybe any deck?) with street scum builds, and attempts at a Sam are very limited because they can’t afford some of the signature Sam ‘ware (like blazing fast wired reflexes or high end cyberlimbs) but also because of the lower limit on gear availability also blocking off some cheaper but hard to get gear.  Basically under RAW street scum rules deckers are pretty much impossible but technomancers are fine, a watered down Sam is possible but adepts are more powerful.  The natural result tends to be a mix of magicians, adepts, and technomancers. 

I think using the street scum rules would be fun (constraints breed creativity!), but be aware of the impact that they impose on the likely mix of characters. Granted -- this is all just from what I’ve read here on the forums, and sometimes forums exaggerate things because people report the ‘odd’ parts and not the ‘normal’ parts. 

One thing to note about the street scum build, which I think plays in well with what you are looking at, is a change in the available gear (beyond affordability).  Standard 5e build has max rating 6, max availability 12, while 5e Street Scum rule has max rating 4, max availability 10.  This doesn’t have a huge impact, but it does block off APDS ammo and a few weapons, limits fake IDs and licenses to rating three (due to availability of 3x rating), puts a couple of commlinks out of reach, prevents the building of really loaded up vision and audio devices, and blocks off some cyberware (or grades of cyberware) that would probably not be affordable anyway.  Dropping maximum availability to something like 6 would start to have more impact – weapons are available in every category, but a much more limited selection, it would limit fake ID and licenses to rating 2 which won’t get you into anywhere at all secure, it knocks off a lot more ‘ware, etc.  I think that could be one way to get that ‘you are street scum, without fancy toys’ feel.  (although what you or anyone else thinks of that heavy limit on available gear, I don’t know)

[Raven Runner]

Re street scum: I'm working off page 350 in the 5e core rule book (second printing I think).  All it says there is that you chose from the B, C, D, E, E columns during char gen, it doesn't say anything about gear.  I'm in no way opposed to what you mentioned Beta, I'm just not sure what you're referring too.

I'm fine with Street Scum, but I would want everyone to be excited about it, I don't want to force it on anyone if they don't think it would be fun.

Also, for clarity, I'm not planning on sending the characters up against grossly overpowered challenges, the usual fluff for street scum is that everyone is down and out street bums (more or less) and I'm thinking everyone will be vulnerable and low power...but that doesn't mean they need to be street bums.  I'm imagining the team will be going on runs pretty much the way a normal SR game goes...but instead of troll adepts and machine gun turrets they will be dealing with low level security guards and goons with assault rifles.  So, with the street scum rules, we would be going for characters that are new to shadow running...but not necessarily living on the streets.

In other words, the game will be gritty and low powered...for the characters and the setting in general.  It will not be street people brawling it out in the shadow of a glittering world that's beyond them though.  Does this make sense?

Keep the thoughts coming Beta, and everyone else please share your thoughts too.  This game is for all of us, and we need everyone's help to make it awesome

[Raven Runner]

Imagine a normal run, your team is in position...you've got someone running surveillance and watching the perimeter...your monkey is on the roof ready to break through the skylight...your ork with the assault rifle is next to the door carefully staying out of range of the security cam...and your mage is getting ready to summon a spirit...classic SR in my experience.

Now, it's all the same in Final Call...except that the ork had to borrow the assault rifle from a contact and was happy to get one with a laser sight...the monkey had to climb up with a stepladder three roofs over and then spent 20 minutes getting into position...the mage is summoning a force 2 spirit and hoping it goes okay...and the person on surveillance is just some guy the characters met, they don't know what he does, but a contact said it was worth having him along.

Make sense?

[Blueclaws]

Totally makes sense to me when you describe it that way. The whole team is kind of desperate in the sense that they maybe worried that the people to the left or right might get them killed but they don't have a choice really, they need the work and it's this or nothing. 

[Beta]

Re street scum: I'm working off page 350 in the 5e core rule book (second printing I think).  All it says there is that you chose from the B, C, D, E, E columns during char gen, it doesn't say anything about gear.  I'm in no way opposed to what you mentioned Beta, I'm just not sure what you're referring too.

Ah, I was looking at the wrong level of "Street".  I was looking at what I think was called street level campaign in the character creation section.  I hadn't realized that they offered a second take on a low level campaign elsewhere in the book.  I'm sure the organization of the 5th edition rules makes sense to whoever planned it out, and hopefully to many other people, but I can't say that it works out well for my brain--apologies if I get confused by the books on a regular basis.

[Raven Runner]

Lol, I'm not sure it ever made sense to anyone...seriously!  And they often reference rules that aren't mentioned until further into the book but then don't give page references...not to mention the way they mix the crunch and fluff...like the Street Scum rules which at first glance look like story advice and turn out to have alternate character gen rules (tucked away safely in the GM section I believe...because obviously that's where you look when you make a character, lol).

Okay, rant over...fortunately the rules and setting are so good I'll put up with a lot

Char Gen:  okay, I know I've gotten some cool ideas from folks (through PM) that probably wouldn't work with Street Scum, that said...if everyone is game for Street Scum then we might as well go for it.

I think at this point, I just need to here from folks on this thread (or though PM) so I know where everyone's at.

Let's keep this conversation going and see if we can nail down char gen by the end of the week.  If people don't have characters done by then fine, but let's try and get the rules/guidelines/character concepts figured out.  Then hopefully next week we can finalize characters.

Posting: how about a goal of posting every-other day at minimum, ideally every day, and I will try for twice a day.  Once the game starts, if someone doesn't post for two days I will rp their character in a minimal capacity until they return.  Also, if someone goes a week without posting or giving me any kind of advanced warning that they will be away...then I might try and find someone to replace them at least until they return.

Just a thought, better/other ideas?

[Raiderjoseph]

Looks like I better Remake my character. Goodbye 48/10 skills... I'll miss you. Thank god for B being available. Without it my character would make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

[Stoneglobe]

Street Scum rules work for me. (It's basically sum to 6 for those using chummer by the way with no option A taken). Basically any creation system is ok with me providing the challenge is balanced with what we as characters are capable of. I personally wouldn't want to see too many PC's being overpowered as this tends to cause a massive headache in terms of creating challenging runs for everyone.

I can't really help you on the magic front. I don't tend to play those types of character so am a bit hazy on the rules of that side anyway.

I also quite like the concept of either 1 skill at 6 or 2 skills at 5 (no skill group at 5 then ) with everything else below that as I think that would fit the level you're trying to achieve.

[Raiderjoseph]

Street Scum rules work for me. (It's basically sum to 6 for those using chummer by the way with no option A taken). Basically any creation system is ok with me providing the challenge is balanced with what we as characters are capable of. I personally wouldn't want to see too many PC's being overpowered as this tends to cause a massive headache in terms of creating challenging runs for everyone.

I can't really help you on the magic front. I don't tend to play those types of character so am a bit hazy on the rules of that side anyway.

I also quite like the concept of either 1 skill at 6 or 2 skills at 5 (no skill group at 5 then ) with everything else below that as I think that would fit the level you're trying to achieve.

I think that skills would most likely be more a sum of experience in a field prior to the events of the campaign which the players could make at their own discretion. An ex soldier down on his luck and money might have multiple sixes in various combat skills but nothing else or very little otherwise. While a hobo might have little skills but natural talent in a weapon skill or something like that.

[Raven Runner]

Hmm, what I like about the skill cap (one at 6 or two at 5) is that it forces characters to be more diverse, and so far I've found that more diverse characters fit into groups better and are also more interesting as far as the story goes.

Those ex-soldier types are classic, I've seen and played plenty of them, but from a story telling perspective they aren't as interesting as soldiers who have a wide range of skills (in my opinion).

Also, I remember those skill caps being in the rules any way, was that just SR4?  Maybe I'm making this up...

[Raiderjoseph]

Looks like Vexboy 2.0 is gonna have some gymnastics 5 and sneaking 5. Pistols 6.

[Ravensoracle]

I'm perfectly fine with going with the Street Scum rules. I'll work on redoing my character to fit within the rules if we decide to do so.

[Raiderjoseph]

I'm perfectly fine with going with the Street Scum rules. I'll work on redoing my character to fit within the rules if we decide to do so.

Step ahead of you omae.

[Raven Runner]

Looks like Vexboy 2.0 is gonna have some gymnastics 5 and sneaking 5. Pistols 6.

What we are talking about, if we go through with it, is actually one skill at 6 or two skills at 5.  Not both

I'm looking for dice pools of 10-14 on characters top skills, and there should probably only be one or two or maybe three top skills...at least in general. 

This is a bit more gritty then usual, but the challenges will be scaled to match, so the characters will still be quite capable.

[Beta]

Have you decided if there are any gear restrictions, or are we using the standard up to ratingsix/availability 12?

And I can't believe I'm considering skills "E".  Could be D, but I'm thinking at that point that a bit more edge actually might be more useful. *shakes head* it is a different world,for sure!

Edit to add:
- the character concept I'd mentioned in PM earlier could work out for this, but I admit that for him I'm not exactly begging for a restrictive limit ... but I'll deal with whatever.
- are there restrictions on which books we can draw on?  i.e. can we pull stuff from Data Trails, Chrome Flesh, etc?