[Kiirnodel]

Where does it say that one lodge material is different from any other? The book says if you want to upgrade a lodge, you just add more materials. It doesn't specify any other conditions.  Why can't you buy 5 materials at availability 10, then 5 more at availability 10, and build a force 10 lodge?

It doesn't say it explicitly, but at least in my groups we have ruled that (at least conceptually) the materials needed to upgrade a lodge from 5 to 10 are different from the materials needed to get a rating 5 in the first place. Otherwise, you could just do the availability test for a Rating 3 and buy two of them to be able to make a 6, which doesn't make sense.

Now, the rules do state that it doesn't cost any more money to be able to upgrade, so we don't make it cost any more, but the test be able to find more materials uses the availability of the total rating of lodge materials you want to have in the end. So, for example, if you started with a Rating 5 lodge (or previously found the necessary materials for one), and wanted to upgrade to a Rating 10, you would need to make an availability test against the full Availability of a Rating 10 (in this case Availability 20) in order to successfully find the necessary materials. Now, once you've found the materials, since you already have a 5, you only need to pay the difference in cost, which in this case would be another 2,500 nuyen to upgrade from what you have to what you want.

You do need to remember that it still takes the full time to reform the lodge (10 days), and I don't remember if it is listed in the 5th edition book, but lodges have a minimum size based on their rating. So bigger lodges are more noticeable and harder to fit as you get bigger.

[Sendaz]

Does this Rating 10 Lodge make me look Fat?

[Strill]

Because there has to be something to limit the force of the lodge.  Otherwise everyone would have ridiculously high lodge ratings.

Why is that a problem?

Magical paraphernalia and spell casting above rating 3 is licensed in default Seattle setting.  A rating 12 would be the magical equivalent of drug lab or bomb factory.  While you MIGHT have a fake permit for it, nobody will believe it because they are rare as hen's teeth and regulated.  There are damn few permits for that rating and very easy to verify.  They aren't very hideable since they will stand out like a sore thumb in the astral.  So, you need the materials, space to set it up, time to charge it and nobody can notice it during that time or you could be raided and have the whole thing confiscated.

Where does it say that?

[SmilinIrish]

Because there has to be something to limit the force of the lodge.  Otherwise everyone would have ridiculously high lodge ratings.

Why is that a problem?

Magical paraphernalia and spell casting above rating 3 is licensed in default Seattle setting.  A rating 12 would be the magical equivalent of drug lab or bomb factory.  While you MIGHT have a fake permit for it, nobody will believe it because they are rare as hen's teeth and regulated.  There are damn few permits for that rating and very easy to verify.  They aren't very hideable since they will stand out like a sore thumb in the astral.  So, you need the materials, space to set it up, time to charge it and nobody can notice it during that time or you could be raided and have the whole thing confiscated.

Where does it say that?

In regard to Joe's comment I imagine that this is one of those things that has carried over from earlier editions without them printing it in the rules.  We won't play that it has to be licensed.  If the rules don't restrict it, then no license. 

As to why there should be a limit?  Balance among archetypes.  There aren't things that get infinitely better in Shadowrun without a scaling cost.  Also because I want to push through mana barriers as a character.  If it's no problem for me to have an R50 lodge, then suddenly any mage who has been somewhere for more than a year has R50 mana barrier.  Also because that is how I read the rules.  The availability of the lodge is Rx2.  Its nice that the rules allow us to upgrade the lodge, rather than require that a lodge be bought as a complete "kit".  Stretching that further and saying that we can buy 5 R6 lodges separately and combine them to get around availability rules should not be allowed in my opinion (because that's what SR discussions usually are, opinions, since the rules are incredibly open to interpretation).  Obviously we all play in a way that we enjoy the game. 

[CitizenJoe]

The magical paraphernalia thing is in the sidebar thing about magician licenses. It is in the core rule book.  I'm not sure if it was under SINs or under magic.

[SmilinIrish]

Huh, there it is... P 68 Core Book:

 LIFE FOR A MAGIC USER IN 2075:   Magic has been back in the world for more than sixty years, but the Awakened—the term for those who channel magic—remain a small minority of the population. As a result, they are both admired and feared. They are the subjects of wild rumors, baseless speculation, and the occasional freefloating prejudice. Many mundane metahumans fear what the Awakened can do with their abilities. There have been magic-based terror attacks, ranging from the Ghost Dance to the global attacks Winternight launched before and during the second Matrix Crash in 2064, that give credence to these fears. Policlubs like Humanis feed these fears, building them up to spark hate and violence against the Awakened. As a reflection of this fear and as a measure of caution, many sprawls require magic users to register their gear, spell formulas, and spirits (typically they only care about spirits and gear of at least moderate power—in game terms, those with a rating of 3 or higher). They are required to purchase licenses in order to legitimately carry and use magic. These legal licenses often come with invasive requirements, including being subjected to compliance checks that can be conducted at any time, giving law-enforcement corporations the right to search a magic user’s premises without a warrant, even when the person is not present. Some sprawls require magic users to give law enforcement agencies and/ or security corporations blood samples that could serve as material links to track the character magically if necessary. Because of this, many magic users in the shadows have fake IDs and licenses, partly so they won’t get nabbed by the cops, but also so they don’t have to turn any part of their bodies over to them. Rules and cost for magic items and licenses are found in the Street Gear section (p. 416). Since magic is such a rare commodity, it is very much desired by the megacorporations. Legally registered magic users often find themselves the targets of extractions, snatched by rival megacorporations looking to press them into employment. The Awakened have their own prejudices, often against magic users not of their type (e.g., magicians are sometimes prejudiced against adepts). Since they are limited in what they can do, aspected magicians suffer the most prejudice within the Awakened community. Many see them as not fully Awakened or not full magic users, and they are barred from many magic groups.